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"Humanely", sure. If anyone, though, needs a putting down, shouldn't it be those who are unable to prevent themselves from killing? I'm always surprised when someone argues this point, and usually disappointed by the typical arguments presented - not that they aren't deeply felt, but that they are only valid when it's assumed that a sane system *can't* be arrived at. I'm open to the idea of some other fate for them, but I find, then, that the argument resumes the assumption of an ideal state, rather than a functional or pragmatically achievable one.
I'm going to go ahead and throw in pathologically violent offenders of any sort, just to push the envelope.
I'm going to go ahead and throw in pathologically violent offenders of any sort, just to push the envelope.
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 12:47 PMI have touched on this subject in the past and kind of missed the point. I guess I am too humane in some ways, but I value human life too much to become an exterminator. Granted, I share the loathing for these awful people. But I think they can serve a better purpose rather than just locking them up or exterminating them. I think they should be labotomized and turned over to the family of their victems as a slave. People who take another persons life do not deserve the EASY RELEASE of death. Their lives should become the property of those people they have hurt or offended. Not for torture, but for service as an asset to help earn money through bull labor. If I condone killing them, I become what they are.... -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 12:53 PMI understand the emotion behind wanting to execute serial killers, but as long as they are locked away where they can no longer harm others I see no logical reason to put them to death. The rest of the civilized world has abolished the death penalty and we should join them in doing so. -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 4:48 PMI want to serial kill myself, and then sit in the audience chamber and watch myself push the death drugs into me, after I've racked up killing a few thousands of me. No mercy.
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 1:00 PMThe lifetime of hard labor argument is a strong one.
My rebuttal is that it costs too much to feed and house people that, statistically, will not be capable of quality work and will not be able to restore enough value to society to compensate for their impact, past and future.
It's not really about loathing, so much; I got over that with time and acculturation. It's really just a matter of logic. Someone who is incurably driven to slaughter... why is this person allowed to be in the world, cared for in an institution dedicated to their well-being? -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 1:50 PMLoki
<<<My rebuttal is that it costs too much to feed and house people that, statistically, will not be capable of quality work and will not be able to restore enough value to society to compensate for their impact, past and future.>>>
Yea, I guess that really wouldnt be prudent. I just dont like the idea of killing people. And I like the idea of paying to house them the rest of their miserable lives even less. HEY, what if we pit them against one another in a gladiator type setting!!!! If they want to be killers, make them kill each other or be killed in a public forum. That way nobody has to be guilty of murder.Ha!Ha! Problem solved and they get to persue their career choice.Ha!Ha! WEEEEE!!!!! People could place bets on their favorite psychopath.... -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 4:49 PMAre you saying I should make my profile look nicer? -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 4:51 PMI don't even have to C&P that line again, do I?
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sun, October 25, 2009 - 12:14 PMDeposed tyrants should be given their traditional sendoff. Of all monstrosities humanity breeds, this kind is the most dangerous to be left alive.
I have every sympathy for anyone who takes direct personal revenge against some sonofabitch who harmed them or their loved ones, even to the extent a few Israelis did of hunting down fugitive ex-Nazis and executing them on the spot.
<< Someone who is incurably driven to slaughter... why is this person allowed to be in the world, cared for in an institution dedicated to their well-being? >>
So they can be studied. That's about the only use I can come up with for them.
In most cases of capital punishment, it's actually not the putting-to-death that seems cruelest, but the wait of 15-20 years for officials to legally turn the miscreant off forever. That's a considerable refinement of sadism. -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sun, October 25, 2009 - 3:56 PM>>So they can be studied.<<
Another definitely strong argument.
I'll mull that one over and try not to get too anecdotal...
... my real problem here is the professionals doing the studying; having done some work along those lines I didn't find that many quality people in the field - though some of the younger SWs and MDs had the sparkle of promise.
What can we learn? "Why they kill"? I'm already leaning toward "we don't need to know that, really", is the thing. But then I'd be guilty of Hummingbird's charge and letting mere emotion influence my reasoning. So I'ma mull it.
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 4:45 PMI'll be a pusher robot, to roll over the fallen elderly.
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Fri, October 23, 2009 - 2:16 PMI am opposed to death penalty on any terms -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 6:54 PM<<My rebuttal is that it costs too much to feed and house people that, statistically, will not be capable of quality work and will not be able to restore enough value to society to compensate for their impact, past and future. >>
I used to believe that pathological murderers should be destroyed solely on the basis of cost myself. However, I think it actually costs more to execute the condemned rather than to keep them alive. I know it doesn't make a lot of sense since the pathological murderers are breathing, taking up air, food, resources, etc. I think the greater cost is in the administrative procedure involved in execution.
Also, should the severely handicapped or severely mentally retarded, the elderly, or people in comas be put to death simply because they will never be able to produce enough value for society? This is putting a cash value on human life, even that of a pathological murder. -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 7:03 PMPut me to work, I'm extremely efficient. -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 7:23 PMan eye for an eye -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 7:48 PMleaves everyone blind -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 8:12 PMno,
it is not easy
but to live without true re course
the path is never really known
can't cater to the filth and the criminals on this planet
time to make it
rite
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 8:11 PMwhich one transmits, and if they both transmit, what are they transmitting to each other?
Mirada fuerte.
His regard was bold, aggressive, sexual — a striking example of what the Spanish call mirada fuerte, or "strong gazing." In Andalusia, where Picasso grew up
Unlike the rest of the many women in Picasso's life, Gilot took the .... call the mirada fuerte - a strong gaze that penetrates objects
thefortuno.com/the-many-f...lo-picasso/ -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 8:13 PM -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 8:16 PMIf you continue to pay attention, I'll simply make you laugh your ass off.
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sat, October 24, 2009 - 8:20 PMPP: Sat, October 24, 2009 - 8:13 PM
I don't get it
but that should not puzzle
anybody
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sun, October 25, 2009 - 4:01 PM>>it actually costs more to execute the condemned rather than to keep them alive. <<
If what you're saying is "it costs way too much to destroy these people" then we're in agreement. I'd commute that argument to "It really shouldn't cost that much, in these cases, specifically." No lawyers need be involved (let's talk punishment for lawyers trying to get involved), just MDs, nurses, family members.
The whole argument assumes it's possible to assess someone as pathologically incapable of not-killing (we do have a good few examples, though, is the thing, and a scary facet of that, to me, is how few of them are 'famous'), that a more or less sane judiciary exists, that there is, in any wise, some kind of at-least-somewhat-less-moronic system in place to deal with these matters.
Sadly, I haven't found that to be the case.
But if we talk it over we can arrive at logic that will be persuasive and transmissible into the future.
The life I've led has shown me that there is, in fact, a cash value associated with each human life, and the average price is disgustingly low. With that in mind, I repeat, on that basis if none other is sufficiently compelling: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed. They're damaging our collective livestock. -
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sun, October 25, 2009 - 4:08 PMpp: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed.
what is wrong
with that?
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Re: Pathological Murderers Should Be Destroyed
Sun, October 25, 2009 - 4:20 PM>>
Also, should the severely handicapped or severely mentally retarded, the elderly, or people in comas be put to death simply because they will never be able to produce enough value for society?<<
I see no logical reason why that step would ever be necessitated, and reject the arguement that such people present no value. I think a very strong case could be made without ever needing to single out any individual samples / anecdotes to show that age and handicap have very little overall impact on their own dollar value.
But shit, the retarded chick sweeping up at Lenox Mall sings while she does it. A) gainfully employed B) fulfills a service, C) is pleasant and good natured (that's got to be worth a fuckload of money if studied as part of a system of money and value) and D) delights teens who recognize the pop tunes she's singing (who then return to the mall food court, employing more people, maybe even buying stuff? We should *all* strive to be as valuable as the retarded chick that sweeps up at the Lenox food court). People that are too handicapped to perform that kind of service represent more value, in my opinion, than any patho killer ever could, in terms of opportunities for research and the relative value thereof. Brain development malfunction and general physical neuro-atypical physiology is strongly indicated in patho killers ... I suggest that even the *chance* that non-killing neuro-atypicals offer more value in the study of patho killers than the killers themselves do, when factored against their danger and detriment to society as a whole.
Just a *rumor* about patho killers destroyed Hallowe'en, for instance. No case of razor-pranked or poisoned apples has *ever* been documented for Hallowe'en and yet this is the reason that there is no real balls-to-the-wall Hallowe'en for most kids around the nation any longer.
As for the super-old, the ones I've met - and I've met and hung out with more crones and codgers than most people my age by a factor of a zillion - they are worth more than most people, despite the fact that their worth is ignored by most people.
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