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American Psychological Association revises statement on homosexuality
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Posted: May 12, 2009
9:30 pm Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
A publication from the American Psychological Association includes an admission that there is no "gay" gene, according to a doctor who has written about the issue on the website of National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality.
A. Dean Byrd, the past president of NARTH, confirmed that the statement from the American Psychological Association came in a brochure that updates what the APA has advocated for years.
Specifically, in a brochure that first came out about 1998, the APA stated: "There is considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."
However, in the update: a brochure now called, "Answers to Your Questions for a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality," the APA's position changed.
The new statement says:
"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles. ..."
(Story continues below)
"Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to 'prove' that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed," Byrd wrote. "The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality."
Byrd said the APA's documents both new and old "have strong activist overtones," but the newer document "is more reflective of science and more consistent with the ethicality of psychological care."
"On the question of whether or not therapy can change sexual orientation, the former document offered a resounding 'no,'" Byrd wrote. "However, the current document is much more nuanced and contains the following statement: 'To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective.'"
A spokesman for NARTH said the change in statements, although not new, is considered significant for the organization. The APA declined to return a WND call requesting comment.
Byrd questioned whether the APA now plans to study the effectiveness of a variety of therapies for homosexuality.
"Many are entirely without validation, yet practitioners regularly receive Continuing Education credits for teaching these same therapies through APA-approved courses. Perhaps it is time for APA to hold all therapies and all therapists to the standard which they advocate for reorientation therapy," he said.
But he wrote that the changes are substantial, with even a change in the APA's recommendations for additional information.
"Most intriguing are the recommended resources for further reading. The former brochure referred readers to the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force; to Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, and to Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SIECUS), all activist groups," Byrd wrote. "The current brochure refers readers to the American Psychological Association, Mental Health America, and the American Academy of Pediatrics."
NARTH documents other evidence of a lack of a "gay" gene, too.
For example, Douglas Abbott, a University of Nebraska professor, concluded, "If homosexuality was caused by genetic mechanisms, their children would be more likely to choose same-sex interaction. But they aren't more likely, so therefore it can't be genetic."
NARTH also rebuts some of the advocacy positions taken by homosexual proponents.
"The term 'homophobia' is often used inaccurately to describe any person who objects to homosexual behavior on either moral, psychological or medical grounds," NARTH explains. "Technically, however, the terms actually denotes a person who has a phobia – or irrational fear – of homosexuality. Principled disagreement, therefore, cannot be labeled 'homophobia.'"
WND has reported on those who have left the homosexual lifestyle, and the opposition they face, including when a homosexual advocate attributed the crime of rape to the "sickness" of the ex-"gay" movement.
Among other recent developments in the ongoing argument over the 'innateness" on homosexuality:
A New England organization reports members of a transgender lobby promised to shadow grandmothers and others who will be collecting petition signatures on a traditional marriage amendment.
Actions by members of the homosexual community prompted the American Psychiatric Association to cancel what was to be a discussion of the lifestyle.
And prominent leaders of the homosexual community have stated that only they benefit from hate crimes laws, laws that enhance a penalty for crimes already covered by other statutes based on the thoughts that accompany the criminal act.
Regina Griggs, the executive director of Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays, said her organization and staff members repeatedly have been attacked simply because of their message: that there are such individuals as former homosexuals.
Some attacks have been physical, such as a 2007 incident at the Arlington County Fair. Police told WND, there was a confrontation between an individual who got upset over the PFOX message about leaving homosexuality and a volunteer at the fair booth.
"One officer told me today he was on patrol at the fair when a woman approached him and told him a man had knocked over pamphlets at the PFOX booth and assaulted another man there. The officer then spoke to the alleged victim. He did not want to press charges and therefore no written report was filed," said a statement issued by John Lisle, media relations officer for the Arlington County police department.
"Based on the description the officer was given, he located the suspect at the fair. Another officer escorted that gentleman off the fair grounds," his statement continued.
The result? Pro-homosexual activists vigorously condemned Griggs for "making up" the story when she alerted supporters about the situation.
"Regina Griggs has lost all credibility and must resign in shame for her dishonest behavior," wrote Wayne Besen, executive director of the homosexual advocacy group Truth Wins Out. "What PFOX did was warped, twisted and an insult (sic) real hate crime victims."
Those who condemn homosexual behavior also face electronic badgering. When Sally Kern, an Oklahoma lawmaker, vocally rejected the homosexual lifestyle, she was inundated with tens of thousands of e-mails in a coordinated attack on her beliefs. Some of the e-mails threatened her.
wnd.com/index.php
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: May 12, 2009
9:30 pm Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily
A publication from the American Psychological Association includes an admission that there is no "gay" gene, according to a doctor who has written about the issue on the website of National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality.
A. Dean Byrd, the past president of NARTH, confirmed that the statement from the American Psychological Association came in a brochure that updates what the APA has advocated for years.
Specifically, in a brochure that first came out about 1998, the APA stated: "There is considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality."
However, in the update: a brochure now called, "Answers to Your Questions for a Better Understanding of Sexual Orientation & Homosexuality," the APA's position changed.
The new statement says:
"There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles. ..."
(Story continues below)
"Although there is no mention of the research that influenced this new position statement, it is clear that efforts to 'prove' that homosexuality is simply a biological fait accompli have failed," Byrd wrote. "The activist researchers themselves have reluctantly reached that conclusion. There is no gay gene. There is no simple biological pathway to homosexuality."
Byrd said the APA's documents both new and old "have strong activist overtones," but the newer document "is more reflective of science and more consistent with the ethicality of psychological care."
"On the question of whether or not therapy can change sexual orientation, the former document offered a resounding 'no,'" Byrd wrote. "However, the current document is much more nuanced and contains the following statement: 'To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective.'"
A spokesman for NARTH said the change in statements, although not new, is considered significant for the organization. The APA declined to return a WND call requesting comment.
Byrd questioned whether the APA now plans to study the effectiveness of a variety of therapies for homosexuality.
"Many are entirely without validation, yet practitioners regularly receive Continuing Education credits for teaching these same therapies through APA-approved courses. Perhaps it is time for APA to hold all therapies and all therapists to the standard which they advocate for reorientation therapy," he said.
But he wrote that the changes are substantial, with even a change in the APA's recommendations for additional information.
"Most intriguing are the recommended resources for further reading. The former brochure referred readers to the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force; to Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, and to Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SIECUS), all activist groups," Byrd wrote. "The current brochure refers readers to the American Psychological Association, Mental Health America, and the American Academy of Pediatrics."
NARTH documents other evidence of a lack of a "gay" gene, too.
For example, Douglas Abbott, a University of Nebraska professor, concluded, "If homosexuality was caused by genetic mechanisms, their children would be more likely to choose same-sex interaction. But they aren't more likely, so therefore it can't be genetic."
NARTH also rebuts some of the advocacy positions taken by homosexual proponents.
"The term 'homophobia' is often used inaccurately to describe any person who objects to homosexual behavior on either moral, psychological or medical grounds," NARTH explains. "Technically, however, the terms actually denotes a person who has a phobia – or irrational fear – of homosexuality. Principled disagreement, therefore, cannot be labeled 'homophobia.'"
WND has reported on those who have left the homosexual lifestyle, and the opposition they face, including when a homosexual advocate attributed the crime of rape to the "sickness" of the ex-"gay" movement.
Among other recent developments in the ongoing argument over the 'innateness" on homosexuality:
A New England organization reports members of a transgender lobby promised to shadow grandmothers and others who will be collecting petition signatures on a traditional marriage amendment.
Actions by members of the homosexual community prompted the American Psychiatric Association to cancel what was to be a discussion of the lifestyle.
And prominent leaders of the homosexual community have stated that only they benefit from hate crimes laws, laws that enhance a penalty for crimes already covered by other statutes based on the thoughts that accompany the criminal act.
Regina Griggs, the executive director of Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays, said her organization and staff members repeatedly have been attacked simply because of their message: that there are such individuals as former homosexuals.
Some attacks have been physical, such as a 2007 incident at the Arlington County Fair. Police told WND, there was a confrontation between an individual who got upset over the PFOX message about leaving homosexuality and a volunteer at the fair booth.
"One officer told me today he was on patrol at the fair when a woman approached him and told him a man had knocked over pamphlets at the PFOX booth and assaulted another man there. The officer then spoke to the alleged victim. He did not want to press charges and therefore no written report was filed," said a statement issued by John Lisle, media relations officer for the Arlington County police department.
"Based on the description the officer was given, he located the suspect at the fair. Another officer escorted that gentleman off the fair grounds," his statement continued.
The result? Pro-homosexual activists vigorously condemned Griggs for "making up" the story when she alerted supporters about the situation.
"Regina Griggs has lost all credibility and must resign in shame for her dishonest behavior," wrote Wayne Besen, executive director of the homosexual advocacy group Truth Wins Out. "What PFOX did was warped, twisted and an insult (sic) real hate crime victims."
Those who condemn homosexual behavior also face electronic badgering. When Sally Kern, an Oklahoma lawmaker, vocally rejected the homosexual lifestyle, she was inundated with tens of thousands of e-mails in a coordinated attack on her beliefs. Some of the e-mails threatened her.
wnd.com/index.php
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 9:51 AMA tribe about an alt.
tribes.tribe.net/turkelfansunited -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 6:01 PMthis post of yours is as silly as it is irrelevent. Your buddy "awkward" is named appropriately and has acknowedged to me that he knows I am not Holding:
"Well, imagine my chagrin, Dan. I'm very sorry for the case of mistaken identity. Since you're such a big fan of Turkel/Holding, though, you're always welcome to join my tribe. We're all aching to know as much about his research as possible and you seem like an authority on it."
In addition, Awkwards bold challenge to defend the non existance of Jesus was all bluff and bluster, just like everything you post. Here is Holdings response regarding the proposed debate:
"Sorry for the delay, for some dumb reason your message was sent to my spam folder.
Yes, I got a private message from him, and his conditions were not reasonable but idiotic:
1. The entire text must be publicized on my father's blog as well as my own, wherever I wish to put it. It shall not, however, be sent as an email chain letter or anything else which would lack proper acknowledgment.
2. The arguments have to conform to the axioms of logic. All fallacious arguments must be taken off the table.
3. We should keep score. If one side uses up to ten fallacies, that side loses the debate.
4. If a dispute should arise as to whether or not an argument is fallacious, we must bring the question to an unbiased third party, which we'll agree upon beforehand.
Obviously, he tried to put so many hedges around the debate that it would never happen.
He also called me "Turkel" which is a name I have not had since July 2007. :D
Sorry again....I'll smack the spam filter a few times.
God bless,
JP"
Blow off fool
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 7:08 PMDan, all that shows is that the nature of sexuality is complex, and not as simple as a single gene, it does not suggest that sexuality is a choice. You should do some research into intersexed people, those born with both male and female sexual characteristics hermaphrodites. In particular you should do some research on the ones operated on at birth to choose one gender over the other. No amount of socialization or "nurture", or even hormones were able to change the sexuality of these people. I don't know how sexuality is generated, but I know that it exists from birth and is innate.
www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 7:17 PM"I don't know how sexuality is generated, but I know that it exists from birth and is innate."
You don't know any such thing and this statement is self refuting. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 7:36 PMI've got both setrs of genitals in a jar and when I want to wear one set particularly,
I use paperclips to attach it to the back of my head. But for some damn reason no
one will have sex with me!
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 8:46 PM<You don't know any such thing and this statement is self refuting>
Sure I do, I have my own experiences with my sexuality. I know for a fact that as early as 3 I was attracted to women. I have never had the opportunity to choose to be gay. I wish I had, over the years there have been some wealthy gay men seeking my attention! If I had been born Gay or bi-sexual like yourself, I could have made out big time! I mean come on Dan your saying people have a choice, but what your really saying is that YOU have a choice. I can tell you for a fact that I do not and never have. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, May 14, 2009 - 3:03 PMI don't think any actual authority on the matter ever said there was a "gay gene" this was more likely a result of media hype. There are genes that may contribute or increase the chances of homosexuality but there is no gene that just makes people gay. Of course Dan doesn't understand science enough to realize that the same scientist that are researching these genes are probably the ones that forced the board to make the statement in the first place. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, May 14, 2009 - 11:18 PMOh really? Can you please provide the replicated research that points to genes that increase the chances of homosexuality? That would be an interesting read. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 9:00 AMSure, the name of the gene sequence is Xq28. Its what all the media hype has been about. Its also the gene sequence that may cause left handedness. I have posted articles on this before. Dan posted a topic about homosexuals not living as long as straight men. When I countered with "Left handed people live shorter lives then righthanded people so whats your point?" I stumbled on the research. This was before it became a big story. You could still get it for free off peer researched websites. Unfortunately you now have to pay. However XQ28 is still being researched. Like all good science, the researchers have made a theory based on initial evidence and now they are trying to disprove it. That is the reason I used the word"May". -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 5:08 AM"Left handed people live shorter lives then righthanded people so whats your point?"
The point is that by avoiding homosexual sex regardless of physical attraction to the same gender you can greatly extend your life and happiness. Millions of people have done just that. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 8:07 PM<The point is that by avoiding homosexual sex regardless of physical attraction to the same gender you can greatly extend your life and happiness. Millions of people have done just that. >
I disagree first the reason for the high death rate is disease, HIV, for one. This is avoidable by being in a monogamous relationship so the solution is for Gay people to marry. Secondly from a Christian stand point, avoiding what you are is a sin. Christ bashed those who lived one and on the inside were different. If homosexuality is a sin, and you know I disagree with that, then it is a sin wether you choose to express it or not.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 3:41 AMIn other words, no, you can't. Funny.
BWHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAHA!
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 5:04 AMthat isn't how these things work. In July of 1993, the prestigious research journal Science published a study by Dean Hamer which claims that there *might* be a gene for homosexuality. This was followed by an NPR report emphasizing those findings and an article in News Week entitled "Gay Gene". The Wall Street Journal followed up with an "Research Points Toward a Gay Gene...Normal Variation." The fix was now in. Everyone began speaking of Homosexuality as innate, even though the scientific evidence was lacking.
Perception became reality on this issue even though scientists acknowledged (even homosexual scientists) that the science had not confirmed the hype. Truth be known, it is hard to show that ANY behavior is genetic!
"Time and time again, scientists have claimed that particular genes or chromosomal regions are associated with behavioral traits, only to withdraw their findings when they were not replicated. "Unfortunately," says Yale's [Dr. Joel] Gelernter, "it's hard to come up with many" findings linking specific genes to complex human behaviors that have been replicated. "...All were announced with great fanfare; all were greeted unskeptically in the popular press; all are now in disrepute." Mann, C. Genes and behavior. Science 264:1687 (1994).
There is no scientific evidence the homosexuality is simply genetic and no researchers are making this claim. Sexuality for most people appears to involve a complex array of factors, including environmental. Orientation is shaped for most people at an early age, as John claims was the case for him. But this does not in any way prove the existence of a "gay gene". -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 8:11 PM<There is no scientific evidence the homosexuality is simply genetic and no researchers are making this claim. Sexuality for most people appears to involve a complex array of factors, including environmental. Orientation is shaped for most people at an early age, as John claims was the case for him. But this does not in any way prove the existence of a "gay gene". >
I disagree there is evidence though circumstantial in nature and that is the plight of the intersexed who were altered at birth. Their doctors chose a sexual identity for them, but were unable to imprint it. No amount of drugs, hormones or "nurture" was able to change their sexuality. That evidence suggest strongly that sexuality is innate.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 4:45 AM"Sure I do, I have my own experiences with my sexuality. I know for a fact that as early as 3 I was attracted to women."
Your anecdotal experiences have little to do with the science of sexuality.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 8:17 PM<"Sure I do, I have my own experiences with my sexuality. I know for a fact that as early as 3 I was attracted to women."
Your anecdotal experiences have little to do with the science of sexuality.>
I disagree again, many times science is playing catch up with the obvious, long before a scientist could describe the energy and effect of a lighting bolt, people knew that it would fry them if struck, They knew to stay away from open fields etc. Their knowledge was not scientific but base on the obvious, people caught out in a field durring a storm were more likely to be struck, no science needed just common sense. This is a similar situation, ones own experience of their sexuality is sufficient common sense evidence to know that it can not be changed. The science, I am sure will shed more light on the exact nature of it, but it will not change what is already understood from the obvious.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 2:10 PM"Dan your saying people have a choice, but what your really saying is that YOU have a choice. I can tell you for a fact that I do not and never have."
I am saying that homosexuals can decide to have same sex or not. I am saying that reparative therapy has helped thousands of homosexuals change their orientation. It takes great effort and for some it does not work, but for many it has. Your pesonal ancectdotal experiences, as important as they are to you, do not prove anything. Furthermore, heterosexuals who indulge in pornography and drugs, do sometimes find themselves engaging in homosexual sexual activity and later sometimes identify themselves as "bi-sexual" . Furthermore, the prisons are full of people who were straight going in, but later became homosexuals. Surveys have revealled that the longer one is incarcerated the greater the likelihood of acknowleding a homosexual identity. Psychological Services (2005, Vol. 2, No. 2, 151-162) -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 10:10 PM<Surveys have revealled that the longer one is incarcerated the greater the likelihood of acknowleding a homosexual identity. Psychological Services (2005, Vol. 2, No. 2, 151-162)
>
Probably because it is hard to stay in the closet when your surrounded by horny men all day. Being forced to have sex didn't make you Gay Dan, don't blame that on your abusers. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 9:51 AMDan<Surveys have revealled that the longer one is incarcerated the greater the likelihood of acknowleding a homosexual identity. Psychological Services (2005, Vol. 2, No. 2, 151-162)
>
John: Probably because it is hard to stay in the closet when your surrounded by horny men all day.
This is not a reasonable response. The truth is that straight men in prison will sometimes revert to homosexuality in the absence of females. This phenomenon is well known. It is a cop out to claim they were homosexuals all along but thus is the illogic of the lefties.
John: Being forced to have sex didn't make you Gay Dan, don't blame that on your abusers.
are you attempting to be funny? I have never been molested by a homosexual nor have I ever engaged in homosexual sex. Furthermore, I have no desires or fantasies about engaging in homosexual sex. So why does a supposed "christian" make offensive comments like this? Do you really think I would lie about my sexuality? With the possible exception of Loki, I generally accept the word of other people regarding their sexuality. Accusing someone of being what they oppose is a transparent tactic called "silencing the opposition". You are not going to silence me John, so you might as well give up.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 3:16 PM<<<"I don't know how sexuality is generated, but I know that it exists from birth and is innate."
You don't know any such thing and this statement is self refuting.>>>
I know my sexuality has been the same no matter what I did to try to be like everyone else. My feelings can be remembered all the way back to the second grade. There were no gays around me, my father was a hard working heterosexual, my mother was very loving and taught me to read from the encyclopedia by the time I was two years old, and there was NOTHING in my environment that was any different than any other child I grew up with. None of my first cousins nor my brother or sister are gay. So the environment making someone gay is bullshit. I grew up in redneck hell, and I had to hide and be very afraid of what I was. So "nurture" is bullshit as well. Those of you who are so afraid of it should spend more time trying to understand it instead of just tossing acusations at us. Because I am telling you straight up man to man that if you get comfortable in talking this stupid shit and you run into me in public talking that trash, I will change the color of your fucking sky. And there are more of us now who do not fear being discovered or standing up for ourselves out of fear of getting ganged up on by pathetic haters. So just bear in mind that not all of us faggots are afraid and weak.
I believe that homosexuality is evolution in progress and will take many years to see any proof of it. I believe it is a provision provided by nature to pause procreation to control overpopulation. That is just my theory and I'm not looking for validation because I dont care who doesnt like it. I dont really care if there is or is not a gay gene. It doesnt stop us from being gay and realizing it at very very early ages. If it is or is not from birth, what should it matter? I find this post to be just another reason for bashing homosexuals. And that is just sad.
Do we devolve and see if we can find a fucking JEW gene so we can hate on them too? Or maybe we need to isolate a fucking Christian Occultist gene to see if GOD really wanted you to do that. I have debunked your Bible, so now all that is left is to continue to hate homosexuals. You are becoming the minority. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 5:18 AMThis post has nothing whatsoever to do with bashing homosexuals. It is a post about the facts of science verses the lies of a political agenda. Homosexuality is not something past on like "cooties". There are many factors involved, some of those factors may be genetic, some environmental etc.. The point is that homosexuality is not entirely genetic or innate. Factors after birth play an important role. Some of those factors which appear to play a strong role for male homosexuality are father son relationships.
"Do we devolve and see if we can find a fucking JEW gene so we can hate on them too?"
This is political speech which the homosexual lobby and their allies use to silence those who through conviction feel homosexuality is not normal or desirable behavior or demonstrate that the science is on their side in reference to the ability to change sexual behavior.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 11:37 AMSo why are you posting such a useless and boring post. When I was in college I took some socialology courses. I was amazed at how people could write thick books about stuff that was obvious to anyone with a double digit IQ. Most any human behavior is probably due to an assortment of factors. So what.
Like Adam, I can draw from my life experiences. I don't know if my sexual orientation is genetic, totally or partially. I know that I too never had a choice to make. I never remember having a physical attraction to females..never ever. No choices I am just the way I am. I too was raised in a bastion of red neck culture where acceptance would not happen, and being open could have caused me serious harm. So I kept it secret and acted as if I was like other males. I think this approach is bad and unhealthy on many levels. Far from lengthening life, it most likely makes one's life miserable and shorter. My solution was to move to New York City were life for me was safer and acceptance was easier to come by. Anyway I digress...
I think homosexuals just are. There are degrees of sexual preferences from totally hetero totally homo with every kind of behavior in between. People like you, Dan, or whoever you really are, need to stop trying to push you beliefs about what is right or wrong on others.
As for the lady in Oklahoma, why would she get up in public and express her views and expect that there would not be anyone who disagreed with her? That's the problem with these right wing radical christian fundies, they think that everything they say should not be questioned. Their arrogance is unbounded.
I don't think transexuals are gay, but that might be another topic. I guess if the situation were to be turned around and the Transexuals were getting the signatures it would be ok for big, rough looking redneck types to follow them around-- hell, I reckon it even be ok for them to beat the shit out of the faggots.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 6:32 PM"So why are you posting such a useless and boring post."
The reason for the post should be obvious to a person like yourself with a "double digit IQ". It is because there are a large number of myths concerning homosexuality which are taught in schools, spread over the internet and believed by many such as those on this tribe, which are not true. The truth is important, even if it is boring to some.
I don't doubt that you ever felt that you were not attracted to females. But the issue of why you have that attraction is important. Some homosexuals find that they hate their lifestyle and no longer wish to be homosexual. Years ago, many professionals were willing to assist them to change. Now, because of false information, most are told that change is impossible. And this Jim, is a lie!
I have read enough about homosexuality as well as met enough homosexuals to know the pattern. It is all too clear. Homosexuals may be born with certain tendancies. But environmental influences play a huge role. And one influence which plays an enormous role is the father son relationship. In nearly 100% of all cases of male homosexuality, the father son relationship is severely disfunctional. In normal healthy homes were there a two parents and father and son bond well you do not see homosexuality. Which is why it is so rare in Amish homes. I personally know dozens of Amish families and they average about 10 kids each. I have never met a homosexual in the Amish community nor have the Amish I have asked. I am sure that one exists somewhere, but it is very very rare.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 1:42 PMDan
<<<This is political speech which the homosexual lobby and their allies use to silence those who through conviction feel homosexuality is not normal or desirable behavior or demonstrate that the science is on their side in reference to the ability to change sexual behavior.>>>
Oh no no no, we do not want to silence you at all. We love it when you evidence this fear. Especially when all we want is to be treated fairly and equally. <<<This post has nothing whatsoever to do with bashing homosexuals. It is a post about the facts of science verses the lies of a political agenda.>>> Yea, those damn humans wanting to be treated right. DAMN THEM TO HAYULL!!! They are scum who do not deserve to live right? Thou shalt not suffer a homo to live. LET'S BURN THE MOTHERFUCKERS!
Do you know why a turd is tapered at the end? So your asshole wont slam shut. There's not a gene that controls that either, but it's there isnt it? And there's not a lot you can do to change it. So please, by all means, show us more of how much you despise us. Show us why. Show us how we are not humans who deserve equal treatment. Hey I know, let's waterboard the fuckers until they renounce their sins. Yea, that's the ticket.
<<<Some of those factors which appear to play a strong role for male homosexuality are father son relationships.>>>
My relationship with my father has always been wonderful. He taught me strong work ethic, all manner of useful skills with tools and technology, and he kept my brother and I busy helping and learning as we built our home. He played a major part in developing my strong mind and powerful body. He came to all of my football games and track meets. He always provided well for our family and he treated my mother with a great deal of respect. I can see how this kind of unusual childhood could create humans who do not deserve to be treated fairly.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 2:27 PMAnother way to look at the question of parenting and sexual orientation is to look at the children of gay and lesbian couples. Not only do studies show these children to be healthy and well adjusted there also seems to be about the same percentage who turn out to be homosexual. I think this is a part of the reason for the generational differences in acceptance of gays and gay rights. Younger generations of children not only have some good openly lesbian and gay role models they also have friends who have two moms or two dads. To generations of children growing up today homosexuality is an accepted and everyday fact of life. I believe in another generation the opposition to gay relationships will go the way of opposition to interracial relationships. Such bigotry will still exists, but it will be at the margins of society and people will fell rightfully embarrassed to express such a bigoted opinion. The knuckle draggers in Oaklahoma will have to be brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 8:23 PM<I believe it is a provision provided by nature to pause procreation to control overpopulation.>
I agree, you mentions that you had a brother and sister, most homosexuals have older siblings, suggesting that homosexuality is the result of the condition of the mother after multiple births. I believe we have discussed this before:
www.springerlink.com/content...0n10857/ -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 9:42 AMJohn
<<<<I believe it is a provision provided by nature to pause procreation to control overpopulation.>
I agree, you mentions that you had a brother and sister, most homosexuals have older siblings, suggesting that homosexuality is the result of the condition of the mother after multiple births. I believe we have discussed this before:>>>
I do have a brother and a sister, but I was the first born...My brother is three years younger than I am and my sister is 16 years younger than I am. And they are both heterosexual.....So that dog wont hunt... -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 7:37 PM<I do have a brother and a sister, but I was the first born...My brother is three years younger than I am and my sister is 16 years younger than I am. And they are both heterosexual.....So that dog wont hunt>
Well your situation aside the idea does have circumstantial merit, though it would not explain all cases of homosexuality.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 12:57 PM
DAN: OUR CHOICE for INFORMATIVE SCIENCE NEWS
icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/funny-pictures-cat-barges-from-adjacent-lol.jpg -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 12:59 PMand for closeted gay sex that is violently denied the next day.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 2:32 PMFor the life of me I can't remember where I first heard this...
"A Christian is someone who sins on Saturday, repents for it on Sunday, and does it again on Monday." -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 3:19 PMUndoubtedly. Why do you think they need some other human to be perfect for them.
Reject their heaven. Don't ever go. They can't have a meaningful conversation without
mentioning their breeding cult devoted to killing a man they want to worship.
From sacrificial lambs to THE sacrificial lamb. Did anything change?
I bet their Heaven is all about ass-fucking. They certainly seem pissed off about anal sex,
whether because they don't get any, or because it's all they used to practice. But then world-killers
fuck themselves up the ass. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 8:28 PM<Reject their heaven. Don't ever go. They can't have a meaningful conversation without
mentioning their breeding cult devoted to killing a man they want to worship.
From sacrificial lambs to THE sacrificial lamb. Did anything change?
I bet their Heaven is all about ass-fucking. They certainly seem pissed off about anal sex,
whether because they don't get any, or because it's all they used to practice. But then world-killers
fuck themselves up the ass. >
Your confused, Christianity is not about heaven, it is about ressurection. Christians understand that they will be ressurected at a time when the earth will be renewed. Christianity is about the kingdom of God, heaven on earth, which exisits now. It was delivered by Jesus 2000 years ago. Christians live under the authority of God, not sin. we that are in the kingdom of God, live the reward, our God is the God of the living not of the dead.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, May 16, 2009 - 8:24 PM<"A Christian is someone who sins on Saturday, repents for it on Sunday, and does it again on Monday." >
I disagree a christian is someone who does not rely on will, but on the holyspirit to transform their heart through acts of love. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 8:42 AMJohn: "a christian is someone who does not rely on will, but on the holyspirit to transform their heart through acts of love."
Personally, I think a Christian is someone who recognizes the Holy Spirit as an integrated part of themselves. Not something that they get through baptism, or "earn" through good works/attending church enough times, but something that is intrinsically a part of them, and everyone (even if they don't recognize it as the "Holy Spirit"). A Christian is someone who does good because they can't help it. Someone who helps their fellow man, who betters the world, who influences good, because it just comes naturally - not because they have to put some kind of effort into suppressing what they "really" want in favor of doing what they think they should. And, who knew how to do all those things - and did them - before someone had to tell them about it.
But that's just me. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 7:42 PM<Personally, I think a Christian is someone who recognizes the Holy Spirit as an integrated part of themselves. Not something that they get through baptism, or "earn" through good works/attending church enough times, but something that is intrinsically a part of them, and everyone (even if they don't recognize it as the "Holy Spirit"). >
Its not a apart of everyone if it was there would be no need for government and no one would be debating in favor of torture and oil wars.But it is true that the holy spirit is not earned by comes by grace alone.
<A Christian is someone who does good because they can't help it. Someone who helps their fellow man, who betters the world, who influences good, because it just comes naturally - not because they have to put some kind of effort into suppressing what they "really" want in favor of doing what they think they should. And, who knew how to do all those things - and did them - before someone had to tell them about it. >
I absolutely agree, the holyspirit changes the nature of the person, as I tried to convince Dan if a person has to suppress a behavior then they are not acting as Christians who live by faith, grace and a transforming nature.
But that's just me.
>
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 3:38 AMThat is not a Christian. Nor is that the definition of repentance. Pity, when people use words they don't even understand. Once people learn what repentance actually is, then they make a choice. Until then, they are simply fools. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 5:21 AM<< Pity, when people use words they don't even understand. Once people learn what repentance actually is, then they make a choice. Until then, they are simply fools>>
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Matthew 5:22
Sweating yet, Wendy?
It's a pity when the faithful don't even know their holy text.
Perhaps if Pastor spent less time jabbering about partial birth abortion and men marrying each other... -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 10:26 AM<<<Once people learn what repentance actually is, then they make a choice.>>>
Repentance is a concept imagined and written about by liars in the ancient book of hearsay and fabrications. And the dumbass people who push that bullshit need to really look at how it is causing them to treat people. I like my life and I want to go to hell in peace. If what I do is wrong in the eyes of some magical entity who cant speak to me personally, then FUCK HIM OR HER I do not care. And these annoying street preachers had better stay away from me. They enjoy getting online and talking cash shit, but let one of these chickenshit motherfuckers get in my face with this retarded bullshit and I'll knock the taste out of their fucking mouth. I live around plenty of religious people and NONE of them say anything about what I do. Because they know I do not believe what they do and it is useless to tell non-believers silly shit based on belief. And they also know that the only purpose for trying to force their opinion is motivated by something other than love and is not right.
Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
The fucking zealots need to learn this passage because it might just help them keep all of their fucking teeth.Ha!Ha! -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 7:54 PM<Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
>
Your absolutely correct, However with regard to this conversation, the issue is whether or not Christians,who are gay, should feel the need to repent from their homosexuality. And the answer of course is that no one can repent from something they did not choose. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 10:25 PMAnd yet, there is still no evidence linking ANY gene to homosexuality or even heterosexuality. It's a psychological issue, plain and simple. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 2:48 AMIt's environmental.
Hang out with homosexuals long enough and you will become one. Next thing you know you'll be singing show tuns and have pictures of Liza and Judy on the wall. I'm not sure who those people are, but that's what I heard.
From time to time a Homosexual forms, though this is usually driven by Television images (shows like Will & Grace) and anything to do with male models. This is the evil that is "The Gay" trying to seep into a wholesome community and turn it into The New Sodom.
--S -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 8:54 AM"And yet, there is still no evidence linking ANY gene to homosexuality or even heterosexuality. It's a psychological issue, plain and simple."
That is the most untrue and retarded statement ever. The fact there is no clear evidence does not automatically prove amature christan pastor beliefs. The real problem is that scientists do not understand genes and thier purpose in human development enough to make a judgement. They know they control or effect some traits but others are chemical and enviormental in nature. The statement Wendy made above suggests that all human beings sit down at some point and decide whether or not they are gay. Or that it is possible to make a straight person gay through brainwashing. The reality is its only the Christan(in the) closet crowd that would come to that kind of conclusion. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 2:49 PM"In the absence of evidence, all we have to go on are baseline fears and paranoia."
--S
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 8:28 PMBWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAH!
Christian (in the) closet crowd huh?
BWHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
The lack of evidence means you can't go around saying it's biological. That makes you into the fool.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 8:51 PM<The fact there is no clear evidence does not automatically prove amature christan pastor beliefs. >
Wendy does not speak for Christianity, Jesus never said one thing against homosexuality, he did speak out against divorce and fornication in favor of marriage. He did recognize an alternative sexuality and suggested that it glorified God. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, May 20, 2009 - 2:47 AMBWGAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAAHAHA!
Please, oh please, tell me where Jesus claimed that butt pirating glorified God!
BWAAAHAHAHHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAHAHAHAHAH!
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 1:44 PMJohn: "Wendy does not speak for Christianity, Jesus never said one thing against homosexuality, he did speak out against divorce and fornication in favor of marriage. He did recognize an alternative sexuality and suggested that it glorified God."
Neither do you John. Jesus addressed the subject indirectly when he stated that "in the beginning, he made them male and female"..."and the two shall become one flesh". Even a lonely anonymous tribe poster masquarading as a "christian" ought to be able to understand that Jesus in no way endorsed homosexuality. Furthermore, a true Christian would understand that Jesus IS the word of God, from Genesis to Revelation. Therefore every word of the Bible is his, including Romans 1 where Paul warns of the sin of homosexuality and the disease ridden life that will necessarily follow from its practice. No, Wendy doesn't speak for Christianity, nor do you, nor do I. The bible speaks for Christianity and for Christians. And you sir are a foolish imposter who twists it for your own agenda. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 10:19 PM<Neither do you John. Jesus addressed the subject indirectly when he stated that "in the beginning, he made them male and female"..."and the two shall become one flesh". Even a lonely anonymous tribe poster masquarading as a "christian" ought to be able to understand that Jesus in no way endorsed homosexuality. >
Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive [it].
Even a styrofoam head pretending to be a Christian can see that Jesus acknowledged that people are born in more ways then male and female. How about some physical proof? 1 out of 200, 000 births are intersexed, having both male and female genitalia or none at all. Are they not created by God, since they are neither male nor female? -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 4:31 PMJesus was referring also to himself. Christians believe God is a man, but also that he doesn't have sex. Therefore the gnostic gospels state that Jesus was "continent', had no sex. Christians would agree with this. WHerever Jesus is, he can have no sex. Therefore Jesus was persuaded to become a "eunuch for the kingdom of heaven's sake". And it has all gone down hill from there. And it was never necessary. The rational people always win out, eventually. Certain religious people though, want to reduce God to a human being. Therefore they terrorized Jesus into believing this. Then, they try to use this against other people, throughout history. To control their bodies, tell them sex is wrong, or wrong if you don't make a baby. This is an example of Binah's vice of Greed. Greed to control other people. Christians are especially guilty of this. This is a qliphotic quality. It's gonna trap you here. Know why? People Christians can't think worth beans. Their God is a man trapped somewhere having to forego sex. What a bunch of morons. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 9:55 AM"People Christians can't think worth beans"
Hello Pot, this is Kettle, you're black. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 1:26 PMYou lied. There is no way you and your wife have only had sex ten times, and successfully had ten children because of it. You are a liar. What you state is impossible. And you use such lies to advance a Christian agenda. Stay out of others' sex lives. Quit worrying if people are gay. It should mean nothing to you, voyeur. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 9, 2009 - 2:41 PMBob
<<<You lied. There is no way you and your wife have only had sex ten times, and successfully had ten children because of it. You are a liar. What you state is impossible. And you use such lies to advance a Christian agenda. Stay out of others' sex lives. Quit worrying if people are gay. It should mean nothing to you, voyeur.>>>
Ha!Ha! I think this is hillarious because I have to say from my own experience that what Dan has said is possible to some degree. When my last band broke up I married one of our roadies to get a job that required a married couple with no children. After a wild night of partying and us sharing a bed she got pregnant. I stayed with her 14 years out of loyalty to my blood. But I did not want my daughter to be an only child, so two years later we had my oldest son. It was timed and planned. Then I had one more son that was planned and timed so accurately that his birthday and my oldest sons birthday are only 11 days apart in the same month, two years apart.
You are right on what people do sexually being nobodies business. And to point it out and say ugly things to try to make that person feel bad or guily about it is morally unacceptable and evidences a very dark evil intent. It is this dark intent that I find in every goddamned Christian Occultist I have met on here. It is their intent to carry it beyond their little wine and wafer parties in the church with their invisible friends into our government through theocratic bullshit legislation. To use the ancient book of lies and hearsay to demand that two people can not get married just because they are the same gender is the most horrible form of oppression I have lived to expreience from these occultists. They claim the violent bloody past of the Christian religion is not their fault. But then they turn around and do morally repugnant shit to prove they are just as mentally fucked as the crusaders and inquisitionists and they are in fact domestic terrorists. They CAN NOT leave people alone to live as we wish to live. They must confer their hateful bullshit onto everyone around them. And they evidence their mental illness at every opportunity. -
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Sexual Cleansing In Iraq (from recent Utne reader May/June 2009)
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 11:39 AMAdam, you have the idea. Confering " their hateful bullshit onto everyone around them"
This can be explained. But they will want to kill me because of it. Honest, not killing.
Something has been misused for some 4000 years now. But really it's about man's fears, and Christians are some of the most fearful of the lot. I imagine they find something out when they die, and that keeps them from going where they want to go, because despite their tendency to ask for forgiveness, they deny it to others. Perhaps slowly this can be changed, but not without drawing something into their consciousness that they will be very angry to find out. Hint: it has to do with this supposed taking on of sin (which seems endless), and their desire to control conditions here.
Now for the text I wished to provide, as titled in the subject line:
An advocacy group in Iraq is tracking police and militias in that country who are waging "a campaign of sexual cleansing," targeting gays, lesbians, and transgender people for unwarranted arrests and torture, which result in both disappearances and deaths.
The Progessive (Nov. 2008) exposed the brutal details in November, reporting that some individuals "have been burned alive, beheaded, and beaten to death," because of their sexual orientation. Iraqi LGBT (iraqiilgbtuk.blogspot.com) publicizes these hate crimes and has recorded more than 475 murders since 2003. Despite the risk -- more than 25 people associated with the group have been murdered -- the organization continues to run two safe houses in Baghdad. Funding remains problematic, says coordinator Ali Hili, who lives in London. It seems that human rights groups have their own discriminatory issues, "running away because they think they will lose their popularity when they advocate our defense."
Now, I feel this tendency to attack people based on their sexual orientation is a bad one, and I can give several reasons why. If American Christians wish to head in this direction, I will beat their heads in. Now, some of you may have noticed that previously I have said other things in this regard. If you follow what I've said since then, and wonder as to why, and also include Adam's idea of the "Christian Occult", and just how they seem to intend to control us all, you might start to get some answers. All the same, many American Christians have these hateful, violence-prone tendencies. Not a Christian value at all. False Christians. Remember I asked Pinky "Who wants this old idea of 'eye for an eye'?" Who is socially backward? Who considers themselves 'conservatives'? Why do they fight progress? What are they holding onto? I'll keep pointing this out. -
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Re: Sexual Cleansing In Iraq (from recent Utne reader May/June 2009)
Mon, June 15, 2009 - 3:39 PMBob
<<<An advocacy group in Iraq is tracking police and militias in that country who are waging "a campaign of sexual cleansing," targeting gays, lesbians, and transgender people for unwarranted arrests and torture, which result in both disappearances and deaths.
The Progessive (Nov. 2008) exposed the brutal details in November, reporting that some individuals "have been burned alive, beheaded, and beaten to death," because of their sexual orientation. Iraqi LGBT (iraqiilgbtuk.blogspot.com) publicizes these hate crimes and has recorded more than 475 murders since 2003. Despite the risk -- more than 25 people associated with the group have been murdered -- the organization continues to run two safe houses in Baghdad. Funding remains problematic, says coordinator Ali Hili, who lives in London. It seems that human rights groups have their own discriminatory issues, "running away because they think they will lose their popularity when they advocate our defense.">>>
This is what these religious fucks turn into. The Christian Occultists would kill us if they thought they could get away with it. They already bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors at church. They also burned and hanged people as witches. And yes I group them all together. Because as long as they support the proliferation of this ignorant religion, they are guilty of what it creates. They are "One body in Christ", like being a Blood or a Crip. They are a violent gang of domestic terrorists and I have nothing but contempt for the motherfuckers. From the goofy fuckers beating and abusing little children as "WITCHES" to their trying every trick in the book to spread their poisoned fruit to those poor villagers discovered on the Amazon, they are nothing but phagocytic scum feeding off of primal fears. And they dont even realize their stupid religion was nothing more than a battle tactic to keep the equally nutty assed Muslims from kicking their asses. The religion was created to build an army and power through wealth. Why do you think they claimed that GOD commanded that they tithe 10% of all earnings? GOD didnt need any goddamned money, the church leaders did. Because the fucking Muslims were kicking their asses! And since GOD was imagined bullshit, GOD didnt help them when the Muslims came. They needed an army and money. PRESTO! Here's your sign... -
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Re: Sexual Cleansing In Iraq (from recent Utne reader May/June 2009)
Mon, June 15, 2009 - 6:08 PMI was just hoping you would note the degree to which all forms of fundamentalist 'conservatism' rely on invading others' sex lives.
It's their M.O. They feel that they have the right to remark upon others' sex lives, and you duly noted our own country's 'conservatives', and how everything comes down to sexual accusation to them. Yet they may kill, lie, and be as greedy as possible, no matter that their various holy books insists they do none of those things. They stress what works for them from these books, they pick and choose, all to create a constantly breeding underclass that can be oppressed through strong arm tactics, all the while holding to no principle other than accusing others of having any form of sex that is not assured to cause procreation.
And if everyone breeds uncontrollably on this planet, we will have the most horrendous of circumstances.
But they really don't care about that. They just want power over other people. -
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Unsu...
Re: Sexual Cleansing In Iraq (from recent Utne reader May/June 2009)
Mon, June 15, 2009 - 8:50 PMIt was decided that I should go to high school.
From my whole nature, and to an even greater degree from my temperament, my father believed he could draw the inference that the humanistic Gymnasium would represent a conflict with my talents. A Realschol seemed to him more suitable. In this opinion he was especially strengthened by my obvious aptitude for drawing; a subject which in his opinion was neglected in the Austrian Gymnasiums. Another factor may have been his own laborious career which made humanistic study seem impractical in his eyes, and therefore less desirable. It was his basic opinion and intention that, like himself, his son would and must become a civil servant. It was only natural that the hardships of his youth should enhance his subsequent achievement in his eyes, particularly since it resulted exclusively from his own energy and iron diligence. It was the pride of the self-made man which made him want his son to rise to the same position in life, or of course, even higher if possible, especially since, by his own industrious life, he thought he would be able to facilitate his child's development so greatly.
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Re: Sexual Cleansing In Iraq (from recent Utne reader May/June 2009)
Mon, June 15, 2009 - 8:53 PMThis is a quote from a Kafka story, isn't it?
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 8:26 PMsnicker, chortle!
That Perez Hilton is a jackass. He just was BEGGING to force people to agree with his lifestyle. He used the beauty pageant as his little soap box. Hello, it's a beauty pageant! These women aren't rocket scientists. They are there because they have sex-slut written all over them, and many have fake boobs. So it isn't even the ideal woman anymore, just a Barbie.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 10:19 PMPerez Hilton exemplifies everything that is wrong with gays. In fact, I think gays should be ashamed to have to name him as one of their own.
What was his qualifications to be a judge? He's a blogger?
--S
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 6:40 PM"Perez Hilton exemplifies everything that is wrong with gays"
I think he exemplifies everything that is wrong with Perez Hilton. There were homosexual groups which decried his behavior. What is wrong with homosexuals is that they are being lied to. They can never be free by "coming out" or becoming politically active. They can never be happy by practicing imorality. They can only be free and happy by coming to Jesus and being cleansed, forgiven and made a new creature. This fortunately happens every day to those who reject this sad lifestyle and are converted to Christ. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 10:27 PMBreed for Jesus. But Jesus doesn't breed. Because he's God Incarnate.
If he's got a dick, let him breed.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 10:47 AMDan
<<< What is wrong with homosexuals is that they are being lied to. They can never be free by "coming out" or becoming politically active. They can never be happy by practicing imorality. They can only be free and happy by coming to Jesus and being cleansed, forgiven and made a new creature. This fortunately happens every day to those who reject this sad lifestyle and are converted to Christ. >>>
What a crock of shit! You had to google power bottom to find out what it was because you did not know. That shows that there is more that you do not know. Nobody has lied to me. Nobody has told me coming out would make me free or that being politically active would make me free and happy. I came out because I got tired of hiding from hateful people like you. I became politically active when people like you seek to perpetuate the domestic terrorism of oppressing us with your religious rhetoric. Jesus is a dead criminal. He cant cleanse a damn thing! That crap comes from the lies YOU have been told and believe. I am quite happy and free, and it doesnt have one thing to do with your dead criminal on a stick. You are the one confined by immorality as you promote the hatred and oppression of people you know very little about. You shit on love, and that is utterly pathetic. I challange you to find one single thing immoral about my relationship.Ha!Ha! In fact, I DARE YOU! Because I know you are operating from a position of ignorance. So please go ahead and tell me, what is immoral about my relationship with Mack since you think you know so much? -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 10:58 AM"You had to google power bottom to find out what it was because you did not know. That shows that there is more that you do not know."
oh my, I have been exposed for not knowing anything. Any chance you can keep this a secret?:-)
"Nobody has lied to me."
there doesn't appear to be any need. You have brainwashed yourself pretty well all on your own Adam.
" I came out because I got tired of hiding from hateful people like you."
this is a lie as I don't hate "people like you". It just makes you feel better to imagine that those who have convictions that homosexuality is wrong and dangerous are hate mongers. Truth is, homosexuals boast some of the most hateful people on earth. Heck, they even hate themselves.
"I became politically active when people like you seek to perpetuate the domestic terrorism of oppressing us with your religious rhetoric."
People like you, people like you, yous people. Ever watch "All in the Family" Archie:-)
"Jesus is a dead criminal."
so you say, but I know otherwise and you will you soon enough that you are dead wrong.
"So please go ahead and tell me, what is immoral about my relationship with Mack since you think you know so much?"
It is a violation of Gods command of one male and one female. "The two shall become one flesh". You don't need me to tell you that homosexuality is abnormal and "queer" Adam. You know this yourself. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 11:23 AMDan
<<<It is a violation of Gods command of one male and one female. "The two shall become one flesh". You don't need me to tell you that homosexuality is abnormal and "queer" Adam. You know this yourself.>>>
GODS command huh? Okay, where do you get GODS commands? The Bible? I have already proven that GOD did not inspire those people to write anything. Therefore it is MANS commands. You rely on a book that was written by liars. I have proven this. Let me recap just so you can see where you are getting your hateful "commands" that you attribute to GOD.
John 20
1The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
2Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the LORD out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.
3Peter therefore went forth, and that other disciple, and came to the sepulchre.
4So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
5And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
6Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
8Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
9For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
10Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
This is written in such a KNOWING way as to describe the fact that the other deciple did outrun Peter. Now, Mary Magdalene was obviously distraught and very worried what had happened to the body of Jesus. So she stayed at the tomb. Now keep in mind that this account has only Mary Magdalene going to the tomb alone and the stone was already moved.
11But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre,
12And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
13And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my LORD, and I know not where they have laid him.
14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
18Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Now here keep in mind that Jesus said TOUCH ME NOT. And as we look at this second account we see TWO Mary's going to the tomb for the purpose of anointing, watch what happened here;
Mark 16
1And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
2And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
3And they said among themselves, Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulchre?
4And when they looked, they saw that the stone was rolled away: for it was very great.
5And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
6And he saith unto them, Be not affrighted: Ye seek Jesus of Nazareth, which was crucified: he is risen; he is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
7But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that he goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see him, as he said unto you.
8And they went out quickly, and fled from the sepulchre; for they trembled and were amazed: neither said they any thing to any man; for they were afraid.
9Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Okay, now we have two different stories with very specific details such as the foot race between the deciples and TWO angels in the tomb and only Mary Magdalene going to the tomb in the first one and then BOTH Mary's going in the second one and only one guy sitting OUTSIDE of the tomb on the right side wearing long white garments. Very specific in both accounts, but with very different details. Only one truth exists, meaning one of these writers told a lie. Then we have this one:
Matthew 28 (King James Version)
1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
8And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
WHOA, now there a great fucking earthquake tossed in the mix. How in the hell did that get there? Also Matthew 28:9 says " 9And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him." Remember in the earlier passage Jesus said "TOUCH ME NOT"? Well someone is lying. Not just varying accounts of the same incident, but bold faced blatent embellishments which AT LEAST TWO have to be lies as there can only be one truth. OR, maybe it is all a lie? But then you wouldnt have any reason to say hateful things to people would you Dan?
As at least two of these writers lied, it is proof positive that GOD did not inspire them to write these things. (Unless GOD inspires lies.) At any rate, this is very powerful evidence that can not be discounted. So now when citing reasons from this book to call what someone does WRONG or AGAINST GODS COMMANDS, you had better take a damn good look at who wrote those so called "COMMANDS".
BTW, are you still cutting your hair and beard? Because according to those "COMMANDS" you cling to so dearly to chastise what I do and persecute my people, you are equally as culpable as we are because it is one of those "COMMANDS" that you are not to cut your hair or beard.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 10:23 PM<They can only be free and happy by coming to Jesus and being cleansed, forgiven and made a new creature. >
Many people come to God and are not healed many Christians live with crippling injuries and disease are we going to say that they are not Christians? God choose who he will save do not call common what God has sanctified.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 8:45 PM<And yet, there is still no evidence linking ANY gene to homosexuality or even heterosexuality. It's a psychological issue, plain and simple. >
That is a nonsequitor, Some traits are complex involving many genes in combination, some traits are coded by other nutrient factors with in the cells at the time of conception, just because a single gene is not found does not mean that it is not innate, only more complicated then we would have liked.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 10:22 PMAgain, you have concept of what repentance really is. And, since you have no concept of what it really is, you cannot form a valid opinion of it. Try learning just what repentance is. You might be surprised that it has nothing to do with what you seem to think it does. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, May 18, 2009 - 8:48 PM<Again, you have concept of what repentance really is. And, since you have no concept of what it really is, you cannot form a valid opinion of it. Try learning just what repentance is. You might be surprised that it has nothing to do with what you seem to think it does. >
Dear Wendy, repentance is to turn away from something. One can not turn away from something unless they have the ability to choose to do so. One can not repent from being female, or male, or homosexual or bisexual, it is an innate part of what you are, Like your height or shoe size, and those things there are actual treatments for, but for ones sexuality the best you could do is live a life of denial which is not christianly at all.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 1:38 PM""But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."
Matthew 5:22"
Oh nooooo! Rockhead is not citing sacred writ. I guess my job here is over:-)
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, May 17, 2009 - 7:49 PM<That is not a Christian. Nor is that the definition of repentance. Pity, when people use words they don't even understand. Once people learn what repentance actually is, then they make a choice. Until then, they are simply fools. >
Repentance requires choice, as does sin. A woman for example is not going to repent from being a woman. nor a man born with no legs is going to repent from being a cripple. There is much that we can repent from like percecuting and marginalizing a portion of the population and participate in barring them from relgious pratice. That we can repent from and should:
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 6:35 PM"A Christian is someone who sins on Saturday, repents for it on Sunday, and does it again on Monday."
Actually, a Christian is a person who sins everyday and repents of it every day. An unbeliever is a person with no moral conscience, a person who justifies their slutty behavior as an "alternative lifestyle". -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 6:41 PMAlways about sex, is it?
Why is it Christians are so damn interested in others' sex lives?
From One Extreme To Another.
How many sins are there?
You know Dan, even when you cum in her, chances are she doesn't get pregnant.
All about the seed, huh? I know why.
You, my friend, are a Tare. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 6:44 PMIn order to produce as many children as you say you have, you have had a lot of sex.
A lot more than me, and many other people.
Shut up, dumb bitch. Fat sopping wet cunt. Greedy cooch.
Breed until we are all packed like sardines. It's the plan, the plan of an animal.
And you think you have the right to judge others. Fat chance. Dirt sex talking bitch.
You're a dirty whore. You're just sad that gay men are not making more drones
for Christian indoctrination. I can't wait until every new baby is starving.
Jesus said the women would not want to be with child in this time, Danny boy.
Put on a fucking raincoat once in a while, breeder. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 10:47 AM"In order to produce as many children as you say you have, you have had a lot of sex. "
No, actually I'm 10 for 10 -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 11:54 AMDan: "No, actually I'm 10 for 10"
AHA! See, there's the problem. Poor Dan needs to loosen up and get laid. It's simple psychology: because he's dissatisfied in his own sex life, he (likely subconsciously) distracts himself from his own unhappiness by projecting the very negativity he's experiencing onto the lives of others. It's very simple, and very common: what we vow to dislike in other people (or to make it easier for Dan to swallow, seek to "correct" in other people), is precisely what we dislike about ourselves - more often than not this natural occurrence is beneath our conscious perception, and thus is completely undetectable to those who'd never wish to admit it, and embarrassing enough that even those who recognize are rarely strong enough to admit it even then.
That's not to say that Dan is homosexual, or atheist, or a slut, or any other specific accusation he's placed on others - it's often not so detailed or precise a comparison. However, it is an overwhelming indication that Dan himself fears that he is false in his religious aspirations, either that the God he believes in is very different or non-existent, or that the God/s and/or Goddess/es that do exist judge him harshly. And of course, the level of his dedication to arguing these points is in direct correlation with the strength of his own shortcomings. This kind of thing is VERY common among all people - homophobes being closet homosexuals (either subconsciously or in conscious denial) is a perfect example that's been brought up before.
The more angry, argumentative, and negative a person is, the more uncomfortable and dissatisfied they are in corresponding areas of their own life. It's always a hard thing for a person to admit, and just as hard to recognize for many. This is why when I find myself responding in a genuinely negative way to someone here on tribe, I practice self-reflection to determine what it is in my own life that's causing me to act out in such a way. It's never failed me, and I've yet to find a more stimulating source of opportunity for such self-improvement. This is why negative, argumentative people like Dan interest me so much.
Breathe, Dan, breathe. It helps, I promise.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 4:10 PMSo, this complete liar is saying he's only had sex ten times.
Dan, you need a public beating. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 4:17 PMGet your wife on here, Dan, lets see what she says.
I don't know any woman that would accept only having sex ten times.
You are pushing an agenda, and you lie through your teeth.
And yet still just about your only subject is invading others' sex lives to judge them. Why?
Why are Christians so fucking interested? Are all the loose people using up all the fuck juice,
and there's none for you? Every body operates as it does, Dan.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 10:27 PM<So, this complete liar is saying he's only had sex ten times.
>
I believe him for Dan to have sex with a women must take an extreme amount of concentration. He has to maintain an errection and cum all while not picturing naked alter boys. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 4:33 PMChristian attacks Christian. I defend people when they accuse Dan of being gay. It's just a way to bully another person.
But when someone makes a bald-faced lie, I call him on it, especially when he is judging other people about something that aint his business. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 10:09 PMChristian attacks Christian. I defend people when they accuse Dan of being gay. It's just a way to bully another person.
But when someone makes a bald-faced lie, I call him on it, especially when he is judging other people about something that aint his business. >
I am not sure what the claim is here, that I am saying something untrue, or that DAN is a Christian, both claims are false, regardless. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 10:29 AM"I am not sure what the claim is here, that I am saying something untrue, or that DAN is a Christian, both claims are false, regardless."
You have stated many untruths John, including the comment that I have been molested by homosexuals, a claim which I know is false and you have no way of verifying. You don't have to be a christian to know that this is bullying because that is exactly what it is.
As for my being a Christian, this depends upon how you define the word I suppose, since no believer in the bible called themself "christian". I am a believer in Jesus and have accepted his sacrifice as the payment for my sin. I believe that God loves every one and has commanded me to do the same. Furthermore I believe that the bible is Gods inspired word to man from Genesis to Revelation, believe in the trinity, the virgin birth and the bodily resurrection of Jesus from the grave. All evangelicals would define me as a Christian and I have been affiliated with numerous divergent evanelical churches over the years and not once accused of being a non Christian by anyone! My positions on homosexuality are biblical and consistant with nearly all evangelicals as well.
On the other hand, many of your positions are outside of mainstream evangelical Christianity. You quote the bible frequently and do appear to love it but reject many of the truths contained therein. You often twist scripture and you embrace actions which the bible calls sin as good. You redefine its words and passages to mean the exact opposite of what they plainly say.
We have some points of agreement here and there, but in general, you are outside of biblical christianity and hold positions similar to non christian cults. (perhaps you would like to tell us what, if any, church affiliation you have).
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 6:55 PMDan: "a Christian is a person who sins everyday and repents of it every day."
I'll accept that, as a Christian you have more a right to speak on their behalf than myself, no? And vice versa: an "unbeliever" is someone who makes mistakes, learns from their mistakes, and thus avoids making them in the future instead of continuing to screw up quite so much - it's a pretty sweet deal actually, you should try it out :) -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 8:26 PMI can think of few finer compliments to an intellect than "unbeliever".
I want the world full of them. Restless, curious, brilliant unbelievers.
Power to ye, infidels!
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 10:50 AM"unbeliever" is someone who makes mistakes, learns from their mistakes, and thus avoids making them in the future instead of continuing to screw up quite so much - it's a pretty sweet deal actually, you should try it out :) "
both unbelievers and Christians make mistake and learn from them, or not. Mistakes do not necessarily equate to sin. Not sure what you are offering here, but I have tried it out, it is called Life. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 12:05 PMDan: "Mistakes do not necessarily equate to sin."
Yeah, ok. I can agree to that - there are mistakes you can make that are not sins; it may not be a mistake to sin (it was meant to happen?); and surely there are sins that should really just be ignored and don't bode negatively on your life even if they are made.
Not to mention, only those who believe in sin are subject to make them. That's why staying free of dogma is so nice. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 1:00 PMAh, but your forgetting that all Sins are equal. There is no such thing as greater or lessor. All the same.
Nothing Dogma about it, it's just very cut and dry.
--S -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 2:09 PMShatter: "Ah, but your forgetting that all Sins are equal. There is no such thing as greater or lessor. All the same."
I'm not sure you quite understood me.
"only those who believe in sin are subject to make them." In other words, if you don't believe in sin, it's impossible TO sin. Reality is that which, even if you don't believe in it, doens't go away. Sin is not a part of reality, and thus if you don't believe in sin, you are not subject to punishment as a result of it.
Dogma has everything to do with it :) -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 3:01 PMDogma is the Catholics saying that they speak for God.
They're also an arrogant lot of sods.
I understand what you mean. You choosing not to believe in something is all fine and well, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sin is a term and a definition. It's a word. You can choose not to use the word, however that word still exists. Thus, the definition of Sin, all Sins are equal. It's not dogma, it's definition.
This is important to keep in mind. I say it because to lie is a Sin, thus a white lie is still a lie. In teh eyes of God it is therefore they same as murder.
You have two ways you can go with this: Piety or depravity.
Piety would be that you choose to live without Sin, and thus, you don't lie, you don't hurt, you follow the rules and live a good life. Depravity you decide that all sins being equal, you can lie cheat steal and murder and it doesn't really matter since it's all the same.
Humans have rationalized that some sins are greater than others. From a Christianity perspective this isn't true, save for the Unpardonable sin, Suicide. The logic being that you can't ask for forgiveness if you die, and ultimately, taking your own life is interfering with God's plan, but then you are getting into Dogma. It could also be argued that if you kill yourself that was God's plan for you all along. Then we get into the whole Divine plan vs free will arguments.....
--S -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 4:13 PMWho is this person? This is not Shatter. When did Shatter get religion? Where is the troll Shatter? What happened? Sadness. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 7:35 PMI've studied a lot of things, religion is one of them.
I'm up for some Quantum Theory discussions as well. It would be far more interesting than threads about Religion and GAY.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 9:28 PMAgreed, Shatter. Religion is a method of control, believe me; used by those that want something, but don't believe in themselves.
When a user uses repeatedly, to be his crutch is to be an enabler. There are tons of enablers.
Some prefer to have reality shrunk down to the lowest common denominator, and these are the very people who refuse to grow, can't see new sights, and insist on the same old religious handjob. Like dead fish floating to the surface of the water.
Religion must be debunked, it is (generally) asking for the end of the world. Killers justify their killing using religion. That makes it OK.
As long as we can't see out into the universe, can't get out there, we are going to be hamstrung by religious drug addicted users. Who want everything to be the same forever. We are at a major jumping point here people. Recognize the obstructions (or obstructors).
Hint: These are the same people who no matter what spiritual belief they profess, always need more miracles. They need more confirmation in order to behave correctly. It's like they want God himself to come down here and beat their head in to convince them to stop trying to control and own other people. It's a big issue 'round these parts. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 5, 2009 - 2:31 AMReligion as a personal belief is fine and well. People are free to make their own choices in the matter and nobody has a right to force anything upon anyone in this regard.
Religion as a means of Government must be eliminated.
--S
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 8:29 PM>> Dogma is the Catholics saying that they speak for God. <<
That's technically correct - 'dogma' is the secret teaching given only to initiates. Often mistaken for other kinds of tenets. Often what people refer to when they say 'dogma' is actually 'kerygma'.
Your friend,
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 10:29 PMLoki: "Often what people refer to when they say 'dogma' is actually 'kerygma'."
You are right; I often forget.
Please read "dogma" as "kerygma" in my previous posts on this thread. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 6:48 AMDan Says,
In nearly 100% of all cases of male homosexuality, the father son relationship is severely disfunctional.
Really Dan? Please show us the peer reviewed case studies done on 100% of homosexuals and thier fathers.
Dan also says,
In normal healthy homes were there a two parents and father and son bond well you do not see homosexuality. Which is why it is so rare in Amish homes. I personally know dozens of Amish families and they average about 10 kids each. I have never met a homosexual in the Amish community nor have the Amish I have asked. I am sure that one exists somewhere, but it is very very rare.
LOL
Funny I live all the way over here in California and yet I have met 2 gay people and one who identified herself as Bi, all from Amish communities. Im guessing there are more then just 3. Gay people dont exist in Amish comunities because they are not tolerated. Those people leave never to return. Of course there are probably some closet folk that stay behind too.(hint: they probably dont advertise)
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 3, 2009 - 10:27 PMShatter: "I understand what you mean. You choosing not to believe in something is all fine and well, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Sin is a term and a definition. It's a word. You can choose not to use the word, however that word still exists. Thus, the definition of Sin, all Sins are equal. It's not dogma, it's definition."
Um...no. You don't appear to understand what I mean. I agree, choosing not to believe in REALITY doesn't mean it goes away, but that's does not include sin - sin is an element of religious dogma, NOT reality.
Those who don't believe that sin exists (of course the word exists, it's in the dictionary), the actual concept and definition of sin as a thing, are not held to the consequences of sin, because for those people, sin (as a thing, not a word) does not exist. For those of you still not following, allow me to explain further:
People who believe in sin, and do (sin), (and care about it,) spend unnecessary time praying, repenting, asking Jesus/other preferred deity for forgiveness, and/or going to confession (or some kind of equivalent). I say "unnecessary" because if this time were used - instead of blaming it on evil/temptation/Satan/God testing them/etc. - to reflect upon themselves, why they sinned, and how to avoid doing so in the future, they would actually be learning, growing, and improving themselves. Without such action, the learning, growing and self-improvement takes much longer, is much more difficult, and may not even happen at all (in the worst of cases). That's not to say that people who don't believe in sin DO more often participate in self-improvement activities when they wrong themselves or (an)other(s), but they certainly have less to distract themselves from it. That's also not to say that those who believe in sin and pray, repent, etc. about it don't ALSO practice self-improvement from such occurrences, but not only may they not have actually wronged anyone (which would make the whole process counter-productive), but they would still just be wasting time praying/repenting because that's not actually improving themselves - it's a feeble attempt at possibly (by their interpretation) pleasing a probably non-existent deity, for reasons which likely won't turn out to be valid. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 5, 2009 - 2:26 AMSin is nothing more than the old vernacular for "Crime"
--S
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 10:31 PM<"only those who believe in sin are subject to make them." In other words, if you don't believe in sin, it's impossible TO sin. Reality is that which, even if you don't believe in it, doens't go away. Sin is not a part of reality, and thus if you don't believe in sin, you are not subject to punishment as a result of it.
Dogma has everything to do with it :) >
that is only true if you are the highest authority, being an athiest that would be your belief hense you should be free to commit all kinds of unspeakable acts, such as a war in Irag for personal profit and that of your chronies, thanks alot. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 11:15 PM>>that is only true if you are the highest authority, being an athiest that would be your belief<<
Incorrect; false dichotomy. Atheists can acknowledge a wide array of higher powers (should, in my opinion, but hey): society, abstracts, a philosophy, a hero or role model, even a nontheist 'god' (contrived persona exemplary of desired or admired traits). -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 10:13 PMIncorrect; false dichotomy. Atheists can acknowledge a wide array of higher powers (should, in my opinion, but hey): society, abstracts, a philosophy, a hero or role model, even a nontheist 'god' (contrived persona exemplary of desired or admired traits). >
How so, please explain how Athesm logically supports any higher authority then "self"? -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 11:27 PM>>How so, please explain how Athesm logically supports any higher authority then "self"? <<
Sorry; that question relies on a false premise. I'm afraid you lack understanding of logic per se if you believe there's a dichotomy established by an atheist's rejection of the conception of deity. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 10:44 AMIt is dangerous to attempt to speak for John but I think he is referring to an objective standard for morality.
A "hero or role model" is hardly a "higher power" by any stretch of logic. Atheists acknowledge the power of government, so yes, they do acknowledge higher power. They curiously embrace the power of reason also, which logically leads to the refutation their position.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 11:40 PMJohn: "that is only true if you are the highest authority, being an athiest that would be your belief hense you should be free to commit all kinds of unspeakable acts, such as a war in Irag for personal profit and that of your chronies, thanks alot."
Um...ok. Let's forgo the falsely assumed labeling for a moment while I ask: what happened to the "morality outside of religion is proven in the bible" stuff? -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 4:39 PMPinky, John's comment clearly shows that he is lying: who wanted the war in Iraq? BushCo. To make profit. While lying about it. Now we are trying to get out of there, meeting resistance from fundamentalist Christian morons at every step. And now people like Wendy want to blame all the wrong doing of Bush's greed on Obama. What a bunch of idiots, can't ever take the blame. Christians always shirk the blame.
God told Bush to bomb the fuck out of poor people in order to storm their country and take over their natural resources.
Does this make him Godly? No, it makes him a war criminal, working for the oil companies, willing to perform any atrocity for some profit. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 9:01 AM>>Christians always shirk the blame. <<
It does pain me to say so, but, this is guilt by association; it's really a matter of human failing rather than Christian failing.
One thing an inordinate number of Christians do in public life is pretend to be better than everyone else. Turns out they're not - turns out they're no better, in fact, than atheists or wiccans. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 9:56 AMNo; this is the nature of this supposed trasference of sin. Which is bottomless, by their reckoning. So what's the point?
Loki, if I could only tell you some deepest truths about this mental quagmire we humans are in.
Christians are far worse. They went from appeasing some snarling vision of God by cutting up his own creations,
thinking him bloodthirsty, when this is us ourselves. Then, when that did not make reality subservient to their desires,
they did the same to a human. Human sacrifice. Bad precedent. Only gets worse from here on out, unless we can
disabuse ourselves of this sort of wickedness.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 10:08 AMLOL, Loki makes a decent attempt to be "fair and balanced" then blows it:
"One thing an inordinate number of Christians do in public life is pretend to be better than everyone else."
Please provide the list of these "inordinate number of Christians" who are pretending to be perfect Loki? There are a lot of Christians in public life so if you are going to provide a list of those pretending to be perfect, please show where they stated they felt they were perfect and how this number is somehow "inordinate" by comparison to some reasonable standard of measure. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 11:40 AMDan: <"One thing an inordinate number of Christians do in public life is pretend to be better than everyone else."
Please provide the list of these "inordinate number of Christians" who are pretending to be perfect Loki?>
Now who's twisting words, Dan? Loki specifically said "better than everyone else," not perfect - although I'm sure there's a fair number of people who fly the Christian flag and believe that on some level. However, the "holier than thou" types are much easier to spot.
You are a great example yourself. You believe yourself better than atheists because you SWEAR they're immoral, you believe yourself better than homosexuals because you SWEAR you have the right to marry someone you love and they don't (or that you have the right to indulge in sexual intercourse with someone you love and they don't), you believe yourself better than me because you SWEAR that not only must I be atheist and therefore carry all that baggage, but that I'm also adulterous and who knows what manner of other things... And while I hear you claim to believe that all sins are equal and you are a sinner just as everyone else, you believe you're more deserving than others of God's love or to reach Heaven because you think you're more Christian than others.
These very delusions you continue to feed yourself is part of what makes you so FUCKING fascinating! You're an intellectual dishonesty PHENOMENON! -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 12:54 PMI stand corrected on your point Pinky. However, this doesn't diminish Loki's challenge (or yours) in the least. Where are the inordinate number of Christians who believe they are better than everyone else? I contend that this is just a subjective prejudice of yours and others, not an objective fact. Christians in public life, like Christians throughout the culture, may feel they are better "off" than their non believing neighbors for their faith, but I don't believe, nor can you prove, that they believe they are better or more deserving of Gods blessings than their non believing friends, family and neighbors.
"You are a great example yourself. You believe yourself better than atheists because you SWEAR they're immoral"
I believe I have the better philosophy of life. And Yes, I believe that atheism is immoral. But I don't believe that I am any more worthy of the biblical heaven than they for their erroneous beliefs. And I should add that the atheist feels every bit as superior to the theist as well. You are confusing superiority of ones position with superiority as a person or in ones worth. I believe that all people have the same worth and value.
My conviction that homosexuality or pedophila, or beastiality is wrong has nothing to do with the belief that I am superior in worth or value to another human being. Christians believe they are sinners, worthy of judgement, death and hell, just like everyone else. They further believe they are forgiven due to no merits of their own. Believing that certain behaviors are wrong is simply being consistant with ones faith. Voting their conscience in the political arena is simply exercising their rights as citizens, just like non believers. Many non believers on this forum believe their view that homosexuality is normal and healthy feel their position is superior to the Christian. And judging from some of the vile treatment I have received here I am quite sure they feel superior to Chrisitianity and Christians in every way.
"And while I hear you claim to believe that all sins are equal and you are a sinner just as everyone else, you believe you're more deserving than others of God's love or to reach Heaven because you think you're more Christian than others."
This is not true. I don't believe this nor have I have I ever stated this. You have presumed these things falsely.
"These very delusions you continue to feed yourself is part of what makes you so FUCKING fascinating! You're an intellectual dishonesty PHENOMENON!"
I am happy that you find me fascinating Pinky. But the truth is we all have delusions. I am no exception, nor are you. Yet you have not demonstrated any here that are consistent with what I really believe. Rather you have described a characature of me and Christianity in general.
Delusions occur when we embrace views and philosophies which are at odds with reality (eg. atheism). I have analyzed enough of your "morality" to know that you are deluded into thinking you maintain some semblence of a cohesive consistent world view. You don't. Your morality is akin to a boat with no oars, wondering aimlessly, battered about by wind and wave, soon to capsize.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 9, 2009 - 9:37 AMDan: <"And while I hear you claim to believe that all sins are equal and you are a sinner just as everyone else, you believe you're more deserving than others of God's love or to reach Heaven because you think you're more Christian than others."
This is not true. I don't believe this nor have I have I ever stated this. You have presumed these things falsely.>
And that's another hugely interesting thing about you - your refusal to see any fault in yourself (and your belief that stories of, "Oh, but I've fucked up before because blah, blah, blah," actually counter-act that). If you don't believe that you're a better Christian than others, or that you have a better grasp on interpreting/following the bible, or that YOUR particular version of Christianity is the best/most accurate religious view available to mankind, then why the fuck do you waste your time making a damn fool of yourself here? I'll contend that your methods are anything but convincing and wouldn't be any reasonable person's attempt at "persuading the mind" - as you say - of ANYTHING, but seeing as you've mentioned that as your purpose here while being a condescending asshole with delusions of grandeur, I have nothing better to assume than what you directly tell me is true of yourself. According to you (details added by myself), you actually believe that talking badly of people, calling them names, assuming you know them better than they know themselves, and directly contradicting other people's definitions of themselves without offering any reason beyond your personal prejudices ACTUALLY convinces them - or rather, their MINDS - to change their ways and repent to be born again as Evangelical Christians. That's one of the most mind-boggling of all.
Dan: <Delusions occur when we embrace views and philosophies which are at odds with reality (eg. atheism). I have analyzed enough of your "morality" to know that you are deluded into thinking you maintain some semblence of a cohesive consistent world view. You don't.>
My case in point.
Dan: <Your morality is akin to a boat with no oars, wondering aimlessly, battered about by wind and wave, soon to capsize.>
We all capsize every now and then. As they say, "life is like a box of chocolates," no? So far I've been plenty strong enough to keep from it, even with all those icky-sticky (*gasp*) SINFUL challenges I've been through. You see, because of all the trouble I've gotten myself into I've learned to better recognize the signs of a big wave, and while I may not always be able to get out of the way in time, I know how to prepare myself and my boat before it hits. To be honest I can't at all remember a time that I have capsized, but I may very well have - the thing is that when/if I do, I always had good friends and family to turn it back over and help me back in. The best thing about it is that they help me patch up my own boat instead of making me get on theirs.
Some people might prefer the bigger fancier ships with big crews, pleasant conveniences and rich luxuries, but you'll also notice cruise ships have a set course and destination, and even a set schedule. They tell you when to sleep, when to play, when to eat, who to eat with, where to go, what to do... To me, I think a better more exciting journey is found when you can decide for yourself when the best time to do things are, and how you'd like to do them, using your surroundings to help decide what is reasonably best - while letting the waves and the tide carry you to places you may have never seen or experienced if you were too caught up in where you were going, instead of how you got there.
Still others prefer motorboats, or submarines, or kayaks, or rafts... The truth is, your cruise ship is no better than my little drifter, or his kayak, or her motorboat, and neither are any of ours better than yours, they're just all different. They all come with their own benefits and shortcomings, and I personally think that anyone who hasn't experienced riding in someone else's sea vessel can't fully appreciate or understand what's good or bad about it - and anyone who thinks they can is a fool. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 2:00 PM"your refusal to see any fault in yourself"
absurd
" (and your belief that stories of, "Oh, but I've fucked up before because blah, blah, blah," actually counter-act that)."
actually, these "stories" do refute any contention that I consider myself "perfect" or without fault. Never stated such a thing, utterly deny it (that I consider myself perfect).
"If you don't believe that you're a better Christian than others"
again, you have a nasty habit of conflating things which are not symetrical. It is entirely possible to be a "better" (or "worse") Christian that some other and still not be claiming perfection. I am a better Christian than some and worse than others. I have no more worth or value than any other Christian or non Christian.
"or that you have a better grasp on interpreting/following the bible"
I have a better grasp of the bible than some (John or Wendy for instance) and a worse grasp than others. Generally, I don't make such silly comparisions. I simply evaluate what people say and compare it to what I have read. The core teachings of the bible are not that difficult to understand. You have to be willfully blind or have an agenda to misinterpret them.
"or that YOUR particular version of Christianity is the best/most accurate religious view available to mankind"
I have no "version" of Christianity. Only one kind of Christian exists, and there are no others.
"then why the fuck do you waste your time making a damn fool of yourself here?"
who is a fool and who isn't is largely in the eye of the beholder. I could ask the same question of you. As for wasting my time, I think it would be rather easy to prove that you waste more of your time here than I and you are more of a damn fool than many here IMHO.
"I'll contend that your methods are anything but convincing and wouldn't be any reasonable person's attempt at "persuading the mind" - as you say - of ANYTHING, but seeing as you've mentioned that as your purpose here while being a condescending asshole with delusions of grandeur, I have nothing better to assume than what you directly tell me is true of yourself."
Aside from the fact that you are way off topic, I have no delusions of grandeur nor do I think that a mind such as yours can be convinced of anything against your illogical will. My pleasure in being here is not much different than anyone elses. I enjoy debate and discussion on issues of controversy. I gravitate to boards such as heated debate for this reason. Why are you here? Are you polishing your skills as a discussion group leader?
"According to you (details added by myself), you actually believe that talking badly of people, calling them names, assuming you know them better than they know themselves, and directly contradicting other people's definitions of themselves without offering any reason beyond your personal prejudices ACTUALLY convinces them - or rather, their MINDS - to change their ways and repent to be born again as Evangelical Christians. That's one of the most mind-boggling of all."
aside from the fact that you spend an inordinant amount of time criticising me for being mean spirited while rarely if ever doing the same for many others on this tribe, clearly I have hurt your feelings for suggesting that your philosophy, in my judgment, is akin to atheism and you are a booger eating advocate and an immoral slut. We can agree to differ on the atheist accusation but what is incorrect, by definition, with anything else? I will accept your view that I am doing a poor job of converting you to Christianity. As for you MIND, its broke Pinky and I cannot fix it. My tactics and approach here are not without a rational basis however.
Dan: <Delusions occur when we embrace views and philosophies which are at odds with reality (eg. atheism). I have analyzed enough of your "morality" to know that you are deluded into thinking you maintain some semblence of a cohesive consistent world view. You don't.>
"My case in point."
Your case in point for what? My lact of tact? My honest appraisal of the truth? My offensive approach of drawing your attention to your error(s) like a cold slap in the face or a bucket of ice water over the head? Wake up Pinky, time is in short supply.
Dan: <Your morality is akin to a boat with no oars, wondering aimlessly, battered about by wind and wave, soon to capsize.>
"The best thing about it is that they help me patch up my own boat instead of making me get on theirs."
I have never had an "altar call" or offered you and invitation to recite the sinners prayer after me Pinky. I have simply expressed by views as forcefully as I can to the best of my ability. Every one here is an evangelist for their point of view, so I find it surprising and amusing that I get such a disproportionate amount of attention simply because I argue for my views.
"Some people might prefer the bigger fancier ships with big crews, pleasant conveniences and rich luxuries, but you'll also notice cruise ships have a set course and destination, and even a set schedule. They tell you when to sleep, when to play, when to eat, who to eat with, where to go, what to do... To me, I think a better more exciting journey is found when you can decide for yourself when the best time to do things are, and how you'd like to do them, using your surroundings to help decide what is reasonably best - while letting the waves and the tide carry you to places you may have never seen or experienced if you were too caught up in where you were going, instead of how you got there."
(continuing the ship metaphor) tossing out the "owners manual" for stearing your ship and tossing the Captain of the vessel overboard may be adventurous and experience driven but it is still foolhardy nevertheless. (off Metaphor). The other day a 19 year old girl who is a pregnant married young woman called my daughters to ask for help from her physically abusive husband and wrecked life from drugs and promiscuity. She has led a brief life of "adventure", indescriminate sex (5 children, 5 fathers) and was now faced with deciding whether to end it all or not. I am happy to report she is alive today because of the philosophy of the bible, not the philosophy of Kimberly (aka Pinky). This really is the bottom line Pinky. Not all philosophies are equal, all people are. Christianity has positively changed millions of lives for the better. It offers real solutions for real issues. Prostitutes have been reformed, drug abusers/alcoholics have been helped to recover. Marriages have been saved. I personally know countless examples of such people. Some that I have personally been involved with on a counceling level.
Tell me Pinky, who has been helped with your philosophy? Provide me with specific examples of hurting people your philosophy has helped bring back from the brink of dispair to happiness and healing. Atheism offers no solutions. It is merely an attack on theism. What does panentheism offer? I can think of nothing. Let's get down to brass tacks shall we? Stripping away the metaphor, life is serious business. If you don't have anything that has helped or can help real people, you need to get off these boards, scrap what you have and begin searching in earnest. If you feel you have something provide the details of real life "conversions" to a happier and better life. I can do this now for Christianity.
"The truth is, your cruise ship is no better than my little drifter"
bold claim, but you have your work cut out for you to prove it. This isn't about "Dan" or my demeanor. I have never made this about me. It is about the truths found in the bible as they stack up to YOUR "truths".
"anyone who hasn't experienced riding in someone else's sea vessel can't fully appreciate or understand what's good or bad about it - and anyone who thinks they can is a fool."
we are all in the same vessel. Its called life. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 12:15 AMThis is precisely why you interest me.
Reasonable, logical, evidenced and clearly explained constructive criticism bounce off you like...like, well shit. There just isn't a metaphor worthy of it. Your defenses rarely extend beyond "no I'm not," and if they do it's some form of verbal masturbation boosting your own ego back up from the irrefutable blow you took - no supporting argument, no evidence to the contrary, except when you go into fantastical accounts of your popular, white-picket-fence, Pleasantville-esque childhood. As if your word settles anything.
You defend yourself from a position of righteousness which only your own equally self-devised evidence supports. You claim a unique interpretation and discipline of Christianity, separate and different from "better" or "worse" forms, continue on to claim that there is "only one kind of Christianity," and then claim that millions have been changed by adopting Christianity. You call my views contradictory, but how can you possibly reconcile these three statements?
Just how compatible do you think the tens of thousands of Christian sects are?
How many millions of those are actual Christians, and which ones are not?
Which sects are actual Christians and which are not?
And who gives you the authority/divinity to determine any of this in the first place? Are you to tell me you're one of God's "special little helpers"? You should have a TV show.
If you're going to claim the "strait and narrow," then you can't claim millions. If you want to claim millions, you can't claim special authority. You just can't have your cake and eat it too.
You are targeting by more than just myself because you're the only one who claims some special privilege to put others down. Myself and others sling insults when we personally merit them - for whatever reasons - at best, hopefully constructive, and at worst, self-healing through impersonal ranting. However, you are a rarer breed that claims some kind of divine justification for labeling people negatively - near everyone else here has no problem admitting to mud slinging of their own volition, or at most by following logical reasoning and calling people on their objectively demonstrable infractions. For a while now, you have been the only constant contributor to HD that has the audacity to claim some kind of divine authority on which to judge and insult people on. That's why you're targeted, and I'm surprised that you're surprised.
What it all boils down to is that I think, IMHO, that no one can ever reach their full spiritual potential, and in some cases may not even reach their full potential in other areas of their life, if they commit to following someone else's idea of what is right and wrong so far as cannot be proven one way or another, for the sake of following. To arrive at the same conclusion as another is reasonable enough so long as each party arrives their by their own means - in their own boats, so to speak. Which is not to say that they should act irresponsibly, endanger themselves, and have 5 children by 5 different partners along the way - allowing the tide to carry you is far from bending to each and every whim of each and every wave, that's when you DO lose control of the boat. It's all about balance, Dan.
I've explained this all before, but if you must know, I can recap: I target you because you interest me, you interest me because you're a prime example of the negative repercussions cheating Natural Selection has had on the human race, I'm on tribe (Heated Debate more specifically) because interesting people (such as yourself, as controversy tends to attract) test my empathetic skills and my ability to see the world from dramatically different points of view, and I feel that encouraging/broadening these attributes contributes to my level of worldly knowledge and strengthens my ability to adapt, change, grow, progress, and ultimately better myself. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 3:06 AMYou say nothing with many words. You declare yourself "reasonable, logical and clear" when you are confusing, illogical and murky in much of what you write. Your statements lack support and yet you have the audacity to project this writing style over to me. "Pleasantville-esque childhood"? What on earth are you writing about?
If my stating that you are a booger eating advocate and slut makes me self righteous so be it. But how is stating the obvious self righteous? I have accused you of being an atheist. Your defense? "No I am not"! You own words parallel the definition of a panentheist? Your defense? "No I am not!".
I claim no unique interpretation and discipline of Christianity nor have you cited even one comment of mine which states the opposite. I have stated numerous times that I am an evangelical, which is to say, I accept the plain reading of the bible as truth utlizing the basic rules of grammer. If the bible says that God created ex nihilo, I accept this as literal truth. If Jesus employs the metaphor that "I am the door", I understand the context to be saying that he is the way to salvation and heaven, not a slab of wood swinging upon two hinges. This is not a private interpretation, it is a common one. When I say there is only one kind of Christianity, I am referring to the fact that only a Christianity which reflects the teachings of Jesus and the whole of the New Testament is true Christianity. The presense of numerous sects does not deny this fact. The fundamental core teachings of Christianity are, or at least historically been, embraced universally. I am equally comfortable in a Nazarine Church as I am in a Baptist, or a Lutheran, or a Methodist or many others. Minor differences aside, All uphold the inspiration of scripture, the deity of Jesus and the same way of salvation.
Millions have experienced life changing event as the result of converting to Christianity. This is easily defended. Here is a case in point:
"John Newton (1725-1807) sought lustful pleasures throughout his early life. He was also a man of extreme violence and was a ruthless slave-trader. However, this man who victimized men and women himself became a victim. His life collapsed as he himself was sold into slavery. In the midst of his despair he called out to Jesus for salvation. Once saved, his life was totally transformed. After his conversion, he was ordained to the ministry.
Today, we do not remember John Newton as one of the vilest men who ever lived. Instead, we remember him as the man who penned the words, "Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost, but now am found; was blind, but now I see."
NICKY CRUZ
Nicky Cruz grew up on the streets of New York. He was the leader of a gang called the Mau Maus. His life was filled with violence. He trusted in his own strength to solve his problems. But when a persistent preacher proclaimed the gospel message in his presence, the heart of this street warrior began to melt. He accepted Christ as his Savior, and his life has never been the same.
Now he speaks publicly throughout America, leading many city youths to faith in Christ. Because of Cruz's testimony, hundreds of youths have been directed off the path of destruction that he once traveled.
FRANK MORISON
Frank Morison was a journalist who set out to disprove Christ's resurrection. He proceeded to research the historical evidence in great detail. But, having examined the evidence, the skeptic was alarmed with his own conclusion: Christ had actually risen from the dead! Though reluctant at first, he decided to accept the evidence. He accepted Christ as his Savior and is now a defender of the gospel he once tried to destroy.
SAUL OF TARSUS
The mind of Saul of Tarsus was brilliant. His training was superb. His passion was unquenchable. His background and heritage flowed with the Jewish blood of a hundred generations. Yet in one moment he was transformed from the greatest enemy the early church ever faced into the greatest missionary the world has ever known. He is now known as the Apostle Paul, author of 13 books of the New Testament.
SURGEY KOURDIKOV
Surgey was an organ in one of communist Russia's orphanages. He was recruited by the communists to break up underground churches. He did this time and again with brutal force. But he could not shake the images of these peaceful believers faith. One in particular, was a young beautiful women named Natasha. After her church was terrorized Natasha showed up again at another. This time Surgey personally beat her up with a metal rod. Later, to his astonishment, Natasha showed up again at yet another underground church. Surgey could stand it no longer. He began a search to understand Christianity which lead he to jump ship and swim to British Columbia, where he eventually came to faith in Jesus. He wrote the book, The Persecutor, which I have read. It is an amazing tale of transformation.
Christianity is replete with examples of changed lives. Here is a web site depicting just a few: www.transformed.org.uk/lives/
Now, ask yourself—can Shakespeare have such an effect? Can Homer or Milton? Or, for that matter, can the writings of Darwin? No. How about your self devised philosophy? Surely not! It hasn't even reformed you!
"And who gives you the authority/divinity to determine any of this in the first place?" Jesus! He stated that all followers are to go and make disciples and teach them the things which he has taught. All believers are commanded to "rightly divide (discern) the word of God", to separate truth from falsehood.
"If you're going to claim the "strait and narrow," then you can't claim millions."
why not? The bible itself describes multitudes of believers in heaven in Revelation 5. It is true that Jesus said:
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Matthew 7.14
But there are billions of people living on the earth and many more billions who have died since the beginning. So millions is a small number by comparison to the whole.
"You are targeting by more than just myself because you're the only one who claims some special privilege to put others down."
what special privilege is that Pinky? And if I am the only one here with this privilage, why are so many others indulging in it, even prior to my arrival? Please do recall the name of this tribe, "Heated Debate". You one said you can "take the heat". If so, why do you continue to whine?
"Myself and others sling insults when we personally merit them - for whatever reasons - at best, hopefully constructive, and at worst, self-healing through impersonal ranting."
No who is declaring self righteousness? Now who is defending the indefensible?:-) It is astonishing that you defend every poster on HD but me!
"It's all about balance, Dan"
And by what standard do you judge what is "balanced" and what is not? Your philosophy excludes all judgmentalism, including judging me. True enough, you do not live up to your "standard" either!
"I've explained this all before, but if you must know, I can recap: I target you because you interest me, you interest me because you're a prime example of the negative repercussions cheating Natural Selection has had on the human race"
besides being another put down, what does this mean? How does one "cheat natural selection"? Is this possible? The evolution fairy tale is not pretty Pinky, in embraces the most vile among us along with the "good". The Hitler along with Mozart. What ever has survival value. If there is any "cheating" going on I suggest it is your emotional empathetic side. I see no usefulness for this in evolution, but only "might makes right", "kill or be killed", the "preservation of preferred species".
"I'm on tribe (Heated Debate more specifically) because interesting people (such as yourself, as controversy tends to attract) test my empathetic skills and my ability to see the world from dramatically different points of view, and I feel that encouraging/broadening these attributes contributes to my level of worldly knowledge and strengthens my ability to adapt, change, grow, progress, and ultimately better myself."
Sounds like something you should put on your resume. (how is the job search going?). So, reading between the lines, you find me (my views) interesting. You attack them, not because you find fault in them, but because you are curious as to how I will respond. My view is that you lack a consistent satisfying world view and that true happiness has so far, alluded you. So you keep searching and debating, looking for meaning and purpose around the next corner.
I am here because I enjoy debate and an outlet for the things I believe or feel strongly about (politics, religion, science etc.). I am not here to make friends, although I have made a few. I am here to challange and be challenged, thus sharpening my skills as I reflect upon the views of others and compare them to my own.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 9:34 AMI notice that Dan is again posting about things he does not really understand. Things like natural selection. He walks by direct evidence of natural selection all the time. He probably has the end result of natural selection in his house. He doesnt understand that nateral selection is only one facet of evolution and like the nazi party he also blows up that one concept and uses it for his own needs. He posts about people saved by Christianity but leaves out the millions that are destroyed by it.
John Newman
Actually he spent 30 years as a Christian before he decided that slavery was wrong. So his life was not really all that transformed by his conversion. The one thing throughout his life that both fueled his conversion and music was fear of his own mortality. Each time he was threatened with death he called upon god and survived. He was never sold into slavery like Dan said but he did serve on a slave ship where the captain abused him like one. He certainly was not more ruthless or violent then any other Christan in the slave trade he was just a man.
He wrote and incredible hymn though about his survival during a storm though.
"besides being another put down, what does this mean? How does one "cheat natural selection"? Is this possible? The evolution fairy tale is not pretty Pinky, in embraces the most vile among us along with the "good". The Hitler along with Mozart. What ever has survival value. If there is any "cheating" going on I suggest it is your emotional empathetic side. I see no usefulness for this in evolution, but only "might makes right", "kill or be killed", the "preservation of preferred species".
Evolution does not "embrace" anything. Its a natural force. Is rainfall also bad? Because it has embraced all the most vile people in history. How about the sun? Its shined down on all the evil deeds humanity has to offer! Are the seasons somehow to blame? Perhaps if winters had been warmer in Germany Hitler would have become an artist.Evolution is not good or evil, it just is. Dan , that has to be the most stupid arguement against evolution yet! Where are you getting these strange statements?
There are no preferred species in evolution. The ones that can survive and adapt to the enviromental pressures prosper.Other go extinct. And "might makes right" is only a rally call for Antiabortion activists and crusaders it has nothing to do with evolution. If it did then humanity would have been extinct thousands of years ago. Kill or be killed? Many species go without killing anything and still seem to be doing quite well. This is not an evolutionary concept either.
However it might be interesting to see it from a believers perspective. Tell us Dan, how does Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin fit into Gods plan? He certainly spends alot of time making sure there are plenty of rapists and murderers to go around!! How come he spared a lowly slave trader but lets better people die praying for salvation every day? How come Christians elected Hitler and supported him throughout his campaign?Was it in Gods plan for crusaders to murder babies?
Why is it that the most racist people in America always seem to be the strongest faithful Christians?
The very fact that we exist is amazing achievement by evolutionary standards. The Bible says we are made from mud. Science say we are the children of stars. Even those with no religious beliefs have cause to celebrate.
www.youtube.com/watch
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 9:47 AM>>I notice that Dan is again posting about things he does not really understand...<<
It's a rite of passage to try to explain science to Dan. Afterward you choose your new Adult Name and are allowed to touch the spears and arrows by which our tribe defends its glory. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 10:11 AMLoki: "It's a rite of passage to try to explain science to Dan. Afterward you choose your new Adult Name and are allowed to touch the spears and arrows by which our tribe defends its glory."
Thank you, Loki. As I said, I loose sight sometimes why I continue to bother.
Plus, there are cookies.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 6:37 PM"I notice that Dan is again posting about things he does not really understand."
accusation. now where is the proof?
"Things like natural selection. He walks by direct evidence of natural selection all the time."
No doubt. Are you aware that I, and all creationists, accept natural selection? Are you further aware that Darwin didn't invent the concept, but rather a creationist did by the name of Edwin Blyth?
"He probably has the end result of natural selection in his house. He doesnt understand that nateral selection is only one facet of evolution and like the nazi party he also blows up that one concept and uses it for his own needs. He posts about people saved by Christianity but leaves out the millions that are destroyed by it."
I don't leave out anything. I have acknowledged the abuses of abherrant christianity. These actions are real and indefensible. But I object to your contention that Christians have destroyed millions. There is no documentation to defend such a monstrous number.
How do monsters such as Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot fit into Gods plan? I don't know, as I am not God and he has not revealled this to me. I believe in free will, and the sinfulness of man. These men will receive justice for their crimes.
The bible says we are from dust and to dust we will return. This has been confirmed by science. Carl Sagan suggested we are "star stuff", but doesn't have a lick of evidence to support his contention. Stars do not have the right elements to create humans. We all have reason to celebrate. We are "fearfully and wonderfully made", as the bible states. The wonder of life continues to be unveiled with advances in empiricle science.
Might makes right was not the battle cry of pro-lifers. It was the battle cry of darwinian inspired Nazi's. I am surprised you don't know this fact. Clearly this concept is evolutionary, not biblical. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 9:12 PM>>I am not God and he has not revealled this to me.<<
Take two more steps in that direction and you might end up suddenly - miraculously - *not* being a vile fool. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 3:19 PMMan has this idea that God is a reflection of himself. I know why.
I see only failure here. That is why I've said I was of the opinion that if mankind decides he wants to kill this world, humanity should never exist again. I've got reasons, ones that got to the depths of the "supposed" problems here.
Man holds so tightly to this idea of geocentrism. Actually, it has evolved slightly beyond that.
Now it is what I would call "humanocentrism". This is the limitation that keeps anything else from being available to us.
Now, I keep talking about the Qabalah. Wonder why?
Well, it is totally self-reflective for humanity. The idea merely grows and grows.
Some things within it I find decent, some other things ridiculous. But all the same, it is flawed.
"You are the remainder of an anomaly..." Haha. This matrix... it keeps expanding, but insists that it's own problems not be addressed, that someone get outside of it, and tinker with the components, to remove the flaws. But the flaws are endemic, "systemic".
It is said that the "Kingdom" is fragile. And everywhere I go to argue, others tout "cycles".
So some people seemed so attached to misusing others that they would rather destroy and recreate the world without ever addressing these systemic problems. But there just might be a way to force them to confront them. By removing that which they are attached to, or changing it utterly.
Some researchers believe that we came from some alien civilization, say Sirius, to explain ancient history.
Well, we'll see if that science ever holds up. I doubt it will.
Really, what excuses are there for the type of behavior I am alluding to? None. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 3:45 PMThere is a certain thought in Jewish mysticism that is shared by other, less well developed systems:
The idea that we are all tied together in a "collective unconscious". If this holds true, it means that each person differentiates away from that, in order to become particular him/herself. That many parrot a certain line of thinking only means that they never "differentiate away from". This might have something to do with this prevalent tendency to want immortality. But immortality might very well just be a series of permutations. Now, I am never one for having all the mystery ripped away... but I could outline what this means, I just have seen no indication that anybody can comprehend it. Even when I discussed with those familiar with their own system, they related more to rigid dogmatic ways of thinking in order to downplay the direction I was headed in mentally. So really, I *am* an island. Of course, I always knew that.
So, on repeating things: there are many here on Earth who repeat a "party line" about God that seems to resonate with them, gives them certainty, makes them available to go out among the populace and rail against unbelievers. But in truth this sort of GroupThink has them so stolidly set in a mired way of thinking, they keep this whole race from evolving. And these religious types exist in every society, every faith, and they call themselves "conservatives". While having an end-time eschatology that involves the destruction of this planet through their own selfishness and division one against the other, and yet blaming it on God or their prophet, all the while ignoring that it is their own actions that hurtle us towards destruction. Christians and some elements in Jewish thinking are not the only ones to believe that this world needs to come to an end. Islam shares some of these beliefs. And yet their Heavens detail them as having human form, delighting in things that were here. Why destroy something which you are so fond of, that you want to experience as your heaven? Sounds extremely contradictory.
And yet the parrot-heads go on repeating the same things over and over. All saying the same thing, not really even knowing what it means anymore, just saying it again and again just for the sake of comfort.
Uncertainty. That is what humanity faces. Since it needs a human God, and won't fix its own problems.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 9:06 PM"No doubt. Are you aware that I, and all creationists, accept natural selection? Are you further aware that Darwin didn't invent the concept, but rather a creationist did by the name of Edwin Blyth?"
Your point is what? You do realize that most scientists and inventors develop things based on other peoples information and research. Edison alone had to buy patents from Henry Woodward and Mathew Evans, Moses G. Farmer Joseph Swan, James Bowman Lindsay, William E. Sawyer, Sir Humphry Davy, and Heinrich Göbel just to create a lightbulb. Of course no one these days knows any name except Edison.He got the credit because he made it work. The scientist who publishes gets the credit. Darwin Published. Edwin did not. Case closed. Is it the fact that he is a creationist your point? Well if he thought about natural selection before Darwin he certainly couldnt be an evolutionist could he?Thats no revelation Dan.
"Stars do not have the right elements to create humans."
This is another straight lie. Even if scientists didnt have the instrumentation to prove you wrong there is no way you could no that for sure. As it stands its a known fact that stars create all the elements that currently exist on earth. Supernovas expell those elements into the universe and gravity,mass, and chemical and heat processes do the rest.You should really take a science class Dan.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 9:37 PM"Stars do not have the right elements to create humans."
That's a funny ones. Stars get increasingly unstable, can't fuse beyond iron, *they say*...
This just means that in the last few years before going supernova, a massive star fuses a small amount of, say, radioactive elements, like those in the earth's lithosphere (which we mine out), but likely it is accidental. Meaning, in those supposed layer of fused elements, some things get knocked together to create heavier things. Or, the old adage may simply mean that in the compression derived from fusing such relatively heavy elements like iron or above, little energy is freed up, and so therefore very little radiative pressure made to keep the star from collapsing.
So scientists have stipulated an idea that there might be superheavy *stable (non-radioactive) elements farther along the Period Table.
That they wouldn't be radioactive, but would also not be made in stars. That they would be only possible to make through artifical means.
Weird possibility, huh?
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 6:52 PM"Perhaps if winters had been warmer in Germany Hitler would have become an artist."
Hitler didn't become an artist because he couldn't draw. His drawings were grotesque, like his mind. He didn't become an engineer because he choose not to enroll in the course work.
"Evolution is not good or evil, it just is. Dan , that has to be the most stupid arguement against evolution yet! Where are you getting these strange statements?"
Evolution is survival of the fitest. It is differential reproductions. It is killing, "murder" and death. It is the inspiration for the eugenics movement, for Naziism, for Communism, for socialism, atheism, liberalism, for liberation theology and many other evils. I don't care if you feel I am stupid or not. There is plenty of documentation supporting my contention. I am not saying the 'evolution made Hitler' a madman. I think Hitler was already disturbed while in his youth. I think he was estranged from his faither, likely a homosexual like many of his core supporters in the third Reich. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 9:41 PMEvolution is survival of the fitest. It is differential reproductions. It is killing, "murder" and death. It is the inspiration for the eugenics movement, for Naziism, for Communism, for socialism, atheism, liberalism, for liberation theology and many other evils. I don't care if you feel I am stupid or not. There is plenty of documentation supporting my contention. I am not saying the 'evolution made Hitler' a madman. I think Hitler was already disturbed while in his youth. I think he was estranged from his faither, likely a homosexual like many of his core supporters in the third Reich.
Your mostly wrong about many of the things you lay at Darwins feet.
The Eugenics idea was out long before Darwin came on the scene. As you pointed out in your last post the idea of Natural selection was first suggested by a creationist. That makes the Eugenics movement a creature of creationists since the idea of breeding humans the way we breed dogs or horses is artificial selection and has little to do with evolution.
Lets look at Nazism. You keep blaming Darwin for Hitler you say you can provide documentation but I doubt it. You are going to have to face the truth Dan. Hitler was disturbed for sure but he was also elected by a by a christian nation. You are right about him though he was a trully demented individual. Listen to this sick bullshit that he wrote.
"For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties". - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. x
Wait! That sounds like CREATIONISIM!!!! WTF!!??That cant be right! Dan says he's an Athiest evolutionist, and Dan is always right! right......? Lets look at some more to make sure...
"From where do we get the right to believe, that from the very beginning Man was not what he is today? Looking at Nature tells us, that in the realm of plants and animals changes and developments happen. But nowhere inside a kind shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today. - Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Tabletalk (Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier) "
Ok but surely he was a sick demented killer who destroyed hundreds of thousands of lives. His morals must have come from some terrible place.Surely Darwin had something to do with the Holocaust! Dan says so! Lets take a look.
" My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them". - Adolf Hitler, speech, April 12 1922, published in My New Order"
Nope I guess thats wrong too. But didnt Hitler instituitionalize "survival of the fittest?" Apparently not in his schools he didnt.
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing people. - Adolf Hitler, Speech, April 26, 1933 "
Hell this guy is a creationists wet dream!!!! Perhaps Jesus drove him to it. Anyways its very obvious where Hitlers morality came from.
He forced prayer back into german schools! Im sure youd be proud of him! (if it wasnt for that whole Holocaust thing).Its also obvious that your idea of evil is as demented as your comrade(in arms) Hitler. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 9:48 PMJust a couple more words from a dedicated Creationist.
The most marvelous proof of the superiority of Man, which puts man ahead of the animals, is the fact that he understands that there must be a Creator. - Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Tabletalk (Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier)
The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger. The only difference that can exist within the species must be in the various degrees of structural strength and active power, in the intelligence, efficiency, endurance, etc., with which the individual specimens are endowed. (Mein Kampf, vol. i, ch. xi)
Really Dan you should check your data before you post bullshit. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 10:31 PMAdolf Hitler also was of that Occult subset that believed that Aryan spacefaring forefathers came down to earth to be supermen.
That was a product of the times. So for a man to believe in that but also God, is basically no different than the Jews battling the children of the Nephilim, or the Rapturists waiting for Jesus or the angels to come back for them, or the Sitchinites waiting for Nibiru and the Annunaki.
These are all related ideas. Everyone is basically crying out for a tit to suck on. A Cosmic Tit.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 12, 2009 - 10:23 PMThe situational nature of what the "fittest" is goes to the changing nature of the ecological niche competed for.
To blow it up into the Nietzschean argument of "kill or be killed" (which itself is incorrect, he never really included that in the idea of the Ubermensch) is to say that animals unknowingly pursue evil when competing in a natural manners with one another, all enduring the changing conditions on the face of this planet. It often is just chance, and whatever quirk of nature that allows one subset of a species to use an adaptation that another lacks.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 10:03 AMIf it makes you feel any better, Dan, *I* still wonder why I bother addressing you sometimes. Btw, dodging isn't becoming of you.
Booger-eating advocate - in the sense that I would discourage discouragement of it in children based simply on the idea of it being "nasty," without also addressing it's benefits and rightful place as an instinctual practice for many other primates as well (in simpler terms, of course), sure. I'll give you that one.
Slut - this is a bit more complicated. A whore is easily simplified to someone who has sex in exchange for some form of monetary payment. However, slut (as used in modern terms) is just a derogatory term for someone who either has sex that endangers or hurts themselves by seeking it and/or having it, OR the person simply gets laid more than you do and your own insecurities bring you to hold it against them. If you're going by the book (and by that I mean dictionary), it's defined as a dirty, unclean or unhygienic woman (depending on your source), and secondarily a prostitute. Being that I've never contracted an STD, been pregnant, been physically abused, I've had only one yeast infection in all my 22 years, shower regularly and even wax, and have never sold my body to anyone for any form of monetary compensation, I don't think it would be accurate to say that anything validates calling me a slut apart from your own repressed jealousy. So, yeah, maybe.
I cannot accurately tell you that I am an atheist, or a panentheist, or much of anything else for that matter, as I am currently in a transitional spiritual state, hence also while there's not much of anything I can say to such false accusations other than, "no I'm not," I'm simply not *anything* at the moment. If forced, I'd say that I believe in all gods as equally true, existent and real, in same sense that the number 4 is true, existent and real; they are not so much actual beings or entities as they are conceptualizations that people use for their own purposes, i.e. hope, control, power, strength, motivation, masochism, sadism, discipline, reward, authority, manipulation, love, acceptance, racism, etc., etc. Which is not to say that they/religions are evil, destructive or unproductive to follow in general terms, as many people's reasons are honorable, respectable and overall beneficial. If you must call me SOMETHING to fit me into that narrow little box of yours, call me an "numerical agnostic." It'll be like a little pet name ;)
And since you didn't seem to get it the first time, here's a few points you seem irreversably confused on:
1) My "philosophy" is just that: mine. If anyone else were to follow it exactly it wouldn't work for them, and it has "reformed" me beneficially, aa I've already attested to, but as you don't seem to get it, here's a bit more: I've become more personable, dependable, trustworthy, reliable, accepting, helpful, experienced and knowledgeable.
2) Most everyone here insults on the basis of self-interpretation and humble opinion. You are the only constant present that claims divine authority and privilege to berate anyone as apparently appointed to you by Jesus of Nazareth himself. On that note, do you ever proofread?
3) I find OBVIOUS fault in your views, and the fact that you refuse to see it or acknowledge it whilst approached by many different people from many different angles with many different methods is what makes you fascinating (and yes, curiosity has it's own part to play as well).
Also, I don't think cheating Natural Selection is feasible on an individual scale. The human race has (arguably) cheated Natural Selection by as little as treating and curing debilitating and/or fatal illnesses, and as much as finding means for infertile couples to give birth. We sustain our sick and our elderly for as long as we can and have created pain medication to justify their suffering. We have nearly eliminated all competition with other species for survival, and have no natural predators to keep our population in check - besides ourselves. We've even intervened in the Natural Selection process of other species, not only by importing foreign plants and animals to other lands otherwise isolated from such life, setting off the balances of ecosystems everywhere, but also by raising livestock, planting crops, and crossbreeding species in order to create new species, like the domestic dog and cat, modern bananas, lilacs, and grapples (you know, apples that taste like grapes). IMHO, had the human race never disrupted the natural order of survival of the fittest, you wouldn't be here. Technically speaking, none of us SPECIFICALLY would be since history would be drastically changed, but I sure hope you get my point since repeating myself is exhausting with you.
And here's a few other points:
1) I hardly defend a great deal more people than myself - not everyone on HD slings mud and at least about 90% of its members stay completely silent altogether.
2) Judging others is a necessary, natural and overall beneficial part of life. My philosophy excludes prejudice (it's a little different, look it up), stereotyping, and the like (racism, sexism, etc.)., which are neither necessary nor beneficial, but debatably natural nonetheless.
3) I find happiness everyday, in all kinds of places with all kinds of people in all kinds of ways. The truth of it depends on what eyes you're looking at it through and their idea of what makes them happy, but I contend that perfection in the sense of flawlessness is impossible and unattainable (by the human experience at least), so there is ALWAYS room for improvement, and always more to learn, so debating and peering around corners are pleasant ways of passing time IMHO.
Dan: "I am here because I enjoy debate and an outlet for the things I believe or feel strongly about (politics, religion, science etc.). I am not here to make friends, although I have made a few. I am here to challange and be challenged, thus sharpening my skills as I reflect upon the views of others and compare them to my own."
Well, that's not what you specified before but all right. Even I'm a part of different tribes for different reasons, but as you're seemingly jealous of my (subjective) sexual superiority, I assumed you weren't so much interested in why I'm a part of tribes like code d' odalisque. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 6:23 PM"If forced, I'd say that I believe in all gods as equally true"
I hope you don't mind my pulling this out Pinky, but to me it is characteristic of you to offer such contradictory statements as these. This is a violation of the law on non contradiction, a fundamental universal law of logic. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 8:30 PMDan: "I hope you don't mind my pulling this out Pinky, but to me it is characteristic of you to offer such contradictory statements as these. This is a violation of the law on non contradiction, a fundamental universal law of logic."
I try not to let it get to me. By taking shit out of context you're only fooling yourself.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 8:49 PM>>This is a violation of the law on non contradiction, a fundamental universal law of logic. <<
hahahahaha
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 11, 2009 - 10:19 AMHow could I have forgotten this part?:
Dan: "The evolution fairy tale is not pretty Pinky, in embraces the most vile among us along with the "good". The Hitler along with Mozart. What ever has survival value. If there is any "cheating" going on I suggest it is your emotional empathetic side. I see no usefulness for this in evolution, but only "might makes right", "kill or be killed", the "preservation of preferred species"."
I pretty much explained it in my last post - humans have done much to override the natural order, so people can debate for days on whether Hitler and/or Mozart are even supported by the survival of the fittest, but no one will ever really know. On the other hand, empathy has been referenced as one specifically beneficial evolutionary development in social species, so actually my "emotional empathetic side" does resonate with evolutionary advancement of our (and other) species - theoretically.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 9, 2009 - 3:45 PMSay, Dan - look up "inordinate".
Then look up "public".
Then ponder for a while.
>>My conviction that homosexuality or pedophila, or beastiality is wrong has nothing to do with the belief that I am superior in worth or value to another human being.<<
That's an interesting sentence.
You're unable to talk your way out of even the simplest trap you set for yourself. Settle down and realize that you are *far* more flawed, less moral, less ethical, and less temperate than the average person. You are no Christian - not in your discourse nor in your behavior. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 12:57 PMcorrection: inordinant
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 2:37 PM -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 3:37 PMsaw it. as I said, it was a misspell, proof positive that I am not perfect. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 10, 2009 - 3:53 PMWell, thank goodness *that's* settled.
Now, review the teachings of Yahashua bin Yusef the Nazarene from Galilee, aka Jesus the Christ.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 15, 2009 - 2:26 PM>>Yes, I believe that atheism is immoral.<<
?? You're right - it doesn't diminish my challenge at all.
?
God will punish you for your pride. Your name is not written in the Book; the wages of sin is Death - you'll perish in the Lake of Fire.
Nyaaahaha.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 10:17 PM<Um...ok. Let's forgo the falsely assumed labeling for a moment while I ask: what happened to the "morality outside of religion is proven in the bible" stuff? >
Morality outside of a common belief in something spiritual is subjective to he needs of the person. The morality of person with no belief in consequences after death, will naturally see anything that results in his/ her own death as the most evil, and everything else as the lesser of that evil. So the issue has never been that there is no "morality" but a rather a lesser self serving "morality" -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 11:42 PMJohn: <So the issue has never been that there is no "morality" but a rather a lesser self serving "morality">
More and more I'm finding that you're arguments are a great deal like the bullshit Dan's been feeding us for months, only with a big pretty bow on it.
But it still stinks just the same.
I believe Loki has already taken upon himself to inform you of the existence of "higher powers" (by any other name) within atheism. It's honestly just simpler to let you marry morality with a higher power and run with Loki for a while than to actually try to explain it in finer detail to you. Dan is exhausting all on his own, but every now and then I feel I'm having to spell things out for his illegitimate son.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 4:42 PMthe homophobe genes cornered it in an alley and beat it to death. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 6:41 PMit is only natural that they do so since they are not normal and the purpose of a healthy body is to rid itself of imperfections. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 6:46 PMThe body is imperfect, and dead already.
Physical immortality, huh?
Better give me some money to research stem cells.
This world is fucking ridiculous! -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 7:07 PMNow, this is one of the funniest moments in modern cinema, and just exactly how I feel right now:
www.youtube.com/watch -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 7:09 PM"This little girl has survived here all by herself for ten weeks."
"WELL WHY DON'T YOU PUT HER IN CHARGE!!"
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 9:58 PMDan endorses hate-inspired brutally violent murder. Who would have believed it? -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 2, 2009 - 10:34 PMThat again? Gotta keep those turnstiles spinning.
Die, get born, die, get born, come back for some vengeance,
we love that! Drama queens looking for some excitement.
Drama drama drama... breed breed breed, kill each other.
Say amen, say grace, say your prayers before nightie-night,
get up in the morning and go kill some infidels.
Christians used to hate rock music. Wahhabists hate music and dancing.
I see no difference. Literally none. I do foresee a cage match though.
Maybe bin Laden will set of his nukes in many American cities soon.
I know Loki is up for some fun-luvin CHAOS. -
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Tue, June 2, 2009 - 10:50 PM -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 4, 2009 - 10:33 PM<Kumbayah, My Lord, kumbayah!>
The correct lyrics are Come by here, my lord, Come by here. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 4:35 PMYou despise your lord. He is you scapegoat. Figure it fucking out! All this endless sin business is ridiculous. Christians will make anything a sin to gain control over other people. Greedy lot, mentally damaged, whining for favors... -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 10:18 PM<Christians will make anything a sin to gain control over other people. Greedy lot, mentally damaged, whining for favors... >
It is against Christian teachings to seek or hold political power. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 10:35 AM"It is against Christian teachings to seek or hold political power."
Actually, the bible is silent on the matter. While some sects of Christianity are anti-political no scripture prohibits any Christian from running for political office. Fortunately, numerous Christians since our founding have held political office and our some have stated that those who hold office should be Christian. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 1:30 PMJesus rejected Satan's offer of temporal power. Many modern day Christians seek temporal power. Modern day Christianity is a fucking Country Club. And they don't give a shit how run down this earth gets, in contravention of what Genesis states about man needing to care for his world. They just want to be raptured away from the mess we have all made. Because somehow some knowledge was forseen as to nuclear destruction, or massive turmoil and worldwide death caused by fighting over toxic resources like fossil fuels, which are causing climate change which will be a huge difficulty for all life on this planet. But Christians deny it all, while benefiting from these advances. Liars, all.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 14, 2009 - 9:53 PM<"It is against Christian teachings to seek or hold political power."
Actually, the bible is silent on the matter. While some sects of Christianity are anti-political no scripture prohibits any Christian from running for political office. Fortunately, numerous Christians since our founding have held political office and our some have stated that those who hold office should be Christian. >
That is simply an untruth the bible is very clear, consider these verses:
Mat 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
Mat 22:18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, [ye] hypocrites?
Mat 22:19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
Mat 22:20 And he saith unto them, Whose [is] this image and superscription?
Mat 22:21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
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Luk 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
Luk 4:7 If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
Luk 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.
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Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Jhn 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
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Jam 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
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Eph 6:8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether [he be] bond or free.
Eph 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 6:02 AMI truly belive my sexuality as a homosexual was determined by my incubators body. It could not deal with having a male fetus in it, thus tried to feminize me, instead of aborting the fetus. Thus I'm a homosexual. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sat, June 6, 2009 - 3:25 PMGood for you!
--S -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 12:19 AMall that Pat has ever posted is redeemed by that single post.
I'm in awe.
I've sent links to this to many friends; expect tribe.net to finally take off like a rocket made of awesome. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 12:25 AMI can't get with that. You're going t have to tell me what "awesome" is made of first.
I just don't find that a very reliable means of powering a transportation device.
I've never seen anything wrong with Pat's posts. Kinda boring, always whining about Mommy
and whatever she did to him, but as entertaining as... well, some other dull people.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 1:31 AM>>I truly belive my sexuality as a homosexual was determined by my incubators body. It could not deal with having a male fetus in it, thus tried to feminize me, instead of aborting the fetus. Thus I'm a homosexual.<<
you may have missed this -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 2:30 AMNo, I read it, didn't sound any different than anything else he's said.
Just another way to put blame onto someone else. Even science.
How does a womb 'feminize' someone? Some science as to that here might be helpful.
Why were you so impressed? I still don't get it. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 2:40 AMIn the past he said it was either physical or emotional abuse on the part of his mother, now it's her womb.
Just a barrelful of excuses. Whatever inclines people to be gay, I don't really see a problem with it, but such lame-assed excuses get none of us anywhere. I don't think he specifically said before that the abuse led him to be gay, but I could be wrong. All the same, implies some guilt somewhere that he is trying to avoid. And really, I don't think it is his. Who is truly offended that some men are gay? Some women are lesbians precisely for nearly the same reason, being assaulted, hating men, not wanting to be penetrated, having been raped and thereby associating that wrongful sex as typical of all the possibilities of the whole male/female sexual enterprise. So if some women are gay and men let it pass and just go on to find another willing woman, then it can't mean that women are mad that too many men are gay and won't be with them sexually. More likely his guilt (if any at all) at being gay and needing to find a reason outside his own choices or genetic predisposition (which I'll accept without question) has to do with the longstanding guilt all these fuckhead religious types have put on him. Why the fuck are they so damn interested in gay men and their sexual activities is what I've been saying for a good time now. Hell, why are they interested in *ANYONE's* sexual activities outside that and whomever they have sex with? It simply makes no sense. It makes them look stupid. Just basically judgmental perverted idiotic voyeurs that are angry they can look away from a form of sex they say they don't have any interest in. Those aren't their bodies.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 2:43 AMBesides, that post of yours does strike me as being quite a bit biting and tongue in cheek.
Lokifreign being sardonic. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 7, 2009 - 8:55 AMMoi?
My mother's womb was rad: spikes, lights, a small gym, a kickass late 60s hi-fi, and old Playboys kept me buff for birth, which took 17 days. I weighed 65 lbs and was immediately signed to the hospital's natal football team.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 9:52 AMa homosexual who has the good sense to not engage in homosexual sex I might add! -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 9, 2009 - 2:28 AMsomebody's got a crush on Patti
=)
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 2:17 PMWouldn't that make you transgendered? -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 8, 2009 - 2:21 PMthat was in response to pattisons womb feminizing theory.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 14, 2009 - 8:13 AMHomosexuality as a "choice" would mean there would have to be desire, or in religious terminology "temptation".
A rejection that there is an innate genetic mechanism that would incline some men towards homosexuality more than others, and a dismissal of other such theories, would leave one with the innate conclusion that all men are inherently bisexual in their desires and that training, taboos, and or religious belief suppress the desires towards the same sex in people who are "well socialized".
That would mean, Dan, that you have homosexual desires which you successfully repress due to your religious beliefs that they are wrong, if you were "well socialized" they might go as flashes of desire that are repressed, denied, and buried without memory of the events but that you have them. After all, how can you believe in sin and not believe in the desires which prompt sin? If a man believes in the whole paradigm of sin and temptation, one must be tempted in all manner of things that the "flesh" desires and has a weakness for, perhaps you might have been twelve and hero worship for an older boy turned into a crush once... that would be a normal experience predictable by the model of religious people who believe in sin and temptation. At that point you would have faced a "choice" to go with the desire or not, to acknowledge it or not, to feed it or not, to bury it or not. Factors effecting your choice may have been your religious beliefs, but also many other factors, like the expected reaction of your parents and community, expected reaction of the object of your desire... many things. After all, you cannot stand in moral outrage at the choice of those who faced the same choice and same temptation without having experienced the same temptation and choice for yourself.
In fact, many activist Christians make the argument that tolerance of homosexuality can cause more people to become homosexual, particularly their children. It would mean they'd have to believe that homosexual desires and temptation are a common condition in their offspring and that fear of being ostracized in a community which doesn't tolerate such desires coming to expression is a factor in them choosing not to indulge these desires. Oh, some would argue fear is not enough, that one has to be closer to God to repress such desires, but if being close to God was enough on it's own then they wouldn't need to advocate against tolerance in society to keep fear of the community a necessary component.
However, it's my own personal observation that this simply isn't true, that some people seem "gay" from a rather early age, act "gay", that some boys will snatch away the macy's insert from their parents newspaper and begin beating off to the women in the lingere section after a long fascinated staring session, and for others they'll open to the men in breifs and do the same.
I don't believe it's homophobia that causes christians to condemn homosexual sins so actively above other "sins" that seem to go ignored, nor do I believe it is because they have homosexual desires they hate in themselves that make them want to go out and "bash". It just seems to me like it's easier for them to focus on a "sin" that they themselves find easy not to do because they have no temptation for, and not have to concentrate on the ones they indulge in with regularity with many rationalizations why their sin is okay or at the very least will be received by God with a grace that others will not receive.
So while you worry about the mote in the homosexual eye, what sin in yourself is going without any acknowledgement? -
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As It Was Written, So Shall It Remain. By All That is Holy and In All that is Seen and Unseen, Verily, Dan Is Gay
Sun, June 14, 2009 - 4:14 PMMr Brautraeger has now officially passed through each of the five trials set down by our founder-wights, and has emerged - scathed but successful. Rejoice!
In achieving the Fifth and Final Tier of the Rites of Initiation, I hereby declare you an Elder of the HD tribe. Arise, Bruecke Bautraeger, and take thy place among the Elect.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Sun, June 14, 2009 - 9:59 PM<That would mean, Dan, that you have homosexual desires which you successfully repress due to your religious beliefs >
Isn't that what Dan and other such "Christians" are saying when they say that homosexuality is a sin, that they have the choice? No one in their right mind would argue that those in sin have a choice while knowing that they themselves did not, unless they were complete bastards. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 6:42 AM<That would mean, Dan, that you have homosexual desires which you successfully repress due to your religious beliefs >
John: Isn't that what Dan and other such "Christians" are saying when they say that homosexuality is a sin, that they have the choice? No one in their right mind would argue that those in sin have a choice while knowing that they themselves did not, unless they were complete bastards.
Serial Killers have a propensity toward this particular evil. But they still choose to kill. Homosexuals have a propensity toward homosexual sex, but they still choose to indulge in this perversion. We have on this board a non practicing homosexual. Why? Because he has chosen to avoid this dangerous practice? So yes, homosexuals have a choice and yes, reparative therapy proves that homosexuals can change and yes, it is possible for a straight man or women to experiment with bi-sexual sins and to eventually break down their moral barrier to this perversion over time. It has happened time and again. It matters little to me whether someone feels I am a repressed homosexual because if I did have homosexual desires the right thing to do would be to surpress them, there is no shame in it. The shame is in indulging in a sinful perverted lifestyle choice which leads to unhappiness, disease, and an shortened life span. Furthermore, it is a sin to call evil good and good evil. John will have to answer for this sin of his before his Creator. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 9:41 AMWho or what is the Creator, Dan?
Fill in as much as possible here, please. Very interested to hear your perspective on this.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 6:55 AM"A rejection that there is an innate genetic mechanism that would incline some men towards homosexuality more than others, and a dismissal of other such theories, would leave one with the innate conclusion that all men are inherently bisexual in their desires and that training, taboos, and or religious belief suppress the desires towards the same sex in people who are "well socialized"."
Sorry Schmend, Iron man whatever your alt is this week, but your logic doesn't follow. A rejection of a genetic mechanism simply means that one has looked at the science and agreed with the research that homosexuality is not innate. It is just that simple! As for sexuality, the norm for all species is heterosexuality. Homosexual sex is not normal (and an evolutionary zero for those who believe in this nonsense). A man can have sex with a watermellon if he chooses, even if he is not particularly attracted to watermellons. At its root, sex is about "friction". Since we are told that most males masterbate, I guess all males are homosexual (or auto-sexual?).
As with John, it matters less what sex a person is attracted to than it does what sex a person has sex with. This is the main issue. A repressed homosexual is better off than a non repressed practicing one, in every case. If I am repressed, I am unaware of it as I have a happy marriage with a beautiful wife who still turns me on after 20 years of marriage. I expect she will for another 20. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 9:52 AM"Sorry Schmend"
You know Dan, Bruecke is a really nice guy, there is no reason for you to insult him as soon as he steps in a thread.
Do you ever note that he is one of the few to be clearly logical and dispassionate and non-insulting in nearly all of his posts?
I doubt you will ever reach his level. He has not been an alt, at least that profile has not ever been.
This makes visible the weakness of your arguments, that you immediately stoop to this.
Now, once again, I ask why it is Christians like you are so dead set on acrimony, anger, perverse interest, voyeurism, judgment and nastiness in regard to behavior which, like any discerning and polite human individual, should not be your business?
Is there some implicit desire to invade everyone's sex lives, their homes, their bedrooms, their basic privacy, in this Christian standard?
Honestly, Dan, purge yourself of interest in other peoplle's bodies and their actions. What consenting adults do behind closed doors is not your business. If this is the only argument of control left to the adamant proselytizing of Christian missionaries, well it makes explicit one thing: you desire conformity on a subject that may only be half achieved by means of guilt within your own ranks, it gives you no right to invade the lives of people not in your cult. Just makes your type voyeurs. Finit. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 10:20 AMHuman compassion and civility is beneath you Mr. Bob. So don't try to pretend that you have a soul. I have known Schmend for longer than I have known you. And I am an equal opportunity insulter. He understands my approach and I don't think he is offended at all. But why not let him speak for himself? -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 11:06 AMYou don't know me now, but I've been around for quite some time, Dan.
I don't care what you think a soul is. You didn't show one there, right now.
I will not pander to you. Don't act like a baby, little boy.
I'm going to destroy Chrsitianity Dan. Step out of the way, for your own safety.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 11:20 AMPay no attention to the wight, Bob; it's his function to dance around in the Court and say disgusting things.
Dance, Dan, dance! ha ha ha. What a horrid and deformed little thing you are. Now tell us a joke! And not one of those scary ones about the poor man that got nailed to the tree so you could lie about him all your life, please; it's in bad taste for you to keep propping that cross up. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 11:32 AMLoki, if you only knew how deep set is the perversity of these religions.
If society survives, I will write a book that will utterly destroy this ancient gambit.
It is unlikely anyone will truly understand it for decades or perhaps centuries, but eventually, rationality will win out.
I will say this though: the escape plan will never hash out Christians. Look forward to better lives being raised by space-farers that will teach you a different way to believe, a truer method. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 1:25 PM -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 1:19 PMWell while a women's body keeps trying to feminize their male fetuses, instead of aborting them, we are always going to have homosexuals, and it will continue too be an act of God, and not an Abomination.
But religion, and the Bible are man made too controle man. The Catholics, begged for tolerance at the start, and then when they come into power, they showed no tolerance at all, nor compassion. They wanted full control over man, and used the tools of religion too controle the Masses.
Religion, and the rules that come with religion, are all man made. Sexuality for men is determined before birth, by the child's mother, and all women are born bisexual.
it has more to do with a women hormones during the time of pregnancy, than a gay gene. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 3:51 PMPattison, present the science, if this is so. Otherwise I will consider it hearsay because of a lack of proper scientific presentation, and those like Dan will merely front their interest in there being no gay sex anywhere. Like a cop looking for crime, peering in every fogged-up car window to make sure that solely missionary position between consenting married adults of the opposite gender was occurring, and not some heinous gay sex which he might have to interrupt and possibly (in some deeply hidden perverse fantasy) play a part in. All because he beat his wife and she got a restraining order.
Look at this closely. Very closely. When religion teaches that sex is bad, and women demure, put up too much resistance to men's natural urges (and perhaps the women's natural inclinations themselves, though who could ever get a woman to be honest about her feelings!), the swatted-away desire of the male forages eleswhere.
And let me inform you all of something: It's the women that really want the sex.
I don't think I will bother to prove this right now, but women certainly *do* love attention, don't they?
And they need quite a bit of it to orgasm properly.
Buncha horny bitches... separated from man by the stain that religion has become, yet still pulling on us for sex.
(Note the tremendous availability of naked female flesh used to sell just about anything!)
This is the New Paradigm. Search very carefully where to put the blame, whoever, it isn't easy to trace the inanity of human nature and history. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 4:05 PMSo in previous eras, woman was subjugated (and still is today). In the Muslim world, buqas are worn, so that a man is not kept at sexual readiness at all hours of the day, pounded by naked female flesh in all walks of society. Of course it is amusing, this combination of libidinousness and greed. The woman's vanity of her body being played up to during photoshoots, she gets huge sums of money, is made to feel special, and men jack off to her, since society has hobbled its forward-leaning progress, in favor of unleased greed, irrationality, and slaivating over every little variance of the shape of female flesh.
Seems like man is getting to be a bit subjugated too. Given little choice over the use of his own sexuality, unless he can retain a mighty reserve. Now, does it matter? It matters to some. Would women feel properly loved if, as Dan said, they received sex but ten times, to bear ten children? I doubt it. I think the very idea pisses them off. Women, many women, like to wrap men "around their finger", so to speak.
And often mankind stipulates in its religions that this has some esoteric significance. I'm not quite sure. All the same, since all human religions are unable to abandon the human form, or this gender duality, I don't see much use in them.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 6:17 PMBWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAHHAAAHAHAHAHAHAH!
Snicker, chortle, guffaw!
Is this before or after they rape your souls?
BWAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAH! -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 6:25 PMI don't think you are prepared to rape my soul heard enough. Weakling.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 6:27 PMI'll send you a gift certificate to a boudoir photographer, you go get the shots done, then send me some, I'll jack off to them, and then you can feel appreciated.
That's as close as I will get to you, until you change your fucking attitude! -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 18, 2009 - 4:33 AMYou really shouldn't say things like that to your mother, Bob. I am sure she has no desire to have you jack off to her. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 18, 2009 - 12:02 PMYou're my mother? Lost at birth? Are you older than me?
You are full of pathetic combacks.
You're the dumb bitch making it this way all the time.
Someone tries to say something intelligent, you screech like a rabid monkey.
*Never* be surprised that people insult you. Everything you say is an insult.
Sorry you're alone, but no one cares. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 19, 2009 - 3:34 AMNothing Patticakes says is ever intelligent and I have discovered much of what you have to say is just pathetic drivel from an immature coward.
Keep up. -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Fri, June 19, 2009 - 10:49 AMBWAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAAAA!!!!!!!!
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Tue, June 16, 2009 - 1:13 PMDid you enjoy your time at the dentist in Central America, Dan?
You will receive the measure of kindness you put out, my friend.
What you reap, is what you sow.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Wed, June 17, 2009 - 3:28 PMnot particularly offended y' know,
I have made no secret that I change my nom-de-plume from time to time to reflect changes in my life, goals, dreams, etc. They aren't alts though, I was shmendrick, shmendROCK, Irony's Prophet, and way further back I was something else at one time or another.
I am about to go out to a nice dinner with my fiance, when I have time I'll address your points. It's nice sparring with you again Dan, we often disagree on just about everything but no... I don't take it personally... you sound like you are doing well. I hope all is well, my life has been looking up since we last argued over anything (was that about six months ago?). Well anyway, later... -
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Thu, June 18, 2009 - 6:22 AMOkay, I have time for a response now,
You wrote....
As for sexuality, the norm for all species is heterosexuality. Homosexual sex is not normal (and an evolutionary zero for those who believe in this nonsense). A man can have sex with a watermellon if he chooses, even if he is not particularly attracted to watermellons. At its root, sex is about "friction". Since we are told that most males masterbate, I guess all males are homosexual (or auto-sexual?).
As with John, it matters less what sex a person is attracted to than it does what sex a person has sex with. This is the main issue. A repressed homosexual is better off than a non repressed practicing one, in every case.
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Well, hmmm, statistically... yes, the norm of the species is heterosexuality.
But there are many norms that extend to everything from innate intellegence, how much creativity a person has, degree of religiousity, taste in atttire, etc.
There are societies where norms are more strictly enforced, others where enforcement is less strict. Democracy itself can become a tyranny of the majority in a society where stepping outside of "norms" is not tolerated. But consider places like North Korea, or Cambodia under Khymer Rouge and you see the extreme of how "norms" get enforced. The whole philosophy expressed by a tyrant over Athens in one of Heroditus's histories where he took another out to a field of grain and hacked down only the tallest stalks. There are societies that only culturally are less tolerant of stepping out of norms, rather than by law, be in Mexico with red hair during a religious holiday of one kind or another and mobs of superstitious on the street might pull out your hair for being with the devil.
There are ages when norms are more strongly enforced, I had typical sicilian style curly hair, and in middle school I caught hell for it as the norm for the school was straight hair. In middle school you wear the wrong brand of sneakers and the reaction might be as strong as if you announced being gay, I mean people jump all over you the pressure for conforming is insane. Most people who remember middle school remember a time of quite desperation of not trying to seem too smart, too dumb, and as "normal" and like their peers as possible not to face ruthless ridicule.
Now I illustrate the above examples and ask you Dan, how important is the enforcing of Norms in general to you? Are norms to be enforced for their own sake just because they are Norms? Isn't the norm on tribe to be liberal if not left-radical, and yet you and a minority here of conservatives feel a sense of entitlement to participate in discussions here and refuse to accept the norms of "political correctness" or how you should feel on certain issues. Surely if going along with norms were so important to you you'd shun forums where your opinion would be a minority opinion out of respect for "norms" and only seek forums where your views are the norm.
In fact many denominations believe that they are far outside the norm even of Christianity, and that most of Christendom will go unsaved where only their denomination shall traverse the pearly gates and find salvation. For instance, with the "Church of Christ" being a southern baptist marching lock step with them in the Republican party on issues from abortion to gay marriage will not save the Baptist from the fires of hell awaiting them for not being "Church of Christ". Yea, most small denominations take pride in how far outside the norm they are, and individual religious people will even say that a truly christian life (whatever they interpret it to mean) will be far outside the norms of worldliness and invite persecution of many kinds.
So, if you want to argue against homosexuality on the grounds that your religious beliefs make it a sin that an entire community cannot tolerate, that you feel tolerance has become the norm and you are outside the norm of tolerance and wish to change what we tolerate... that's a more sincere argument than coming here to say that enforcement of norms themselves should be the basis of not tolerating homosexuality. Neither you, nor I, would like very much a society that is a tyranny of norms enforced for just being the norm. In fact, your position on enforcing norms for the sake of being norms might favor your arguments on morality in the issue of homosexuality, but may undermine your arguments elsewhere against those who'd perhaps like to see a more even distribution of wealth using the argument of enforcing norms as a way of flattening out social disparities. Enforcing norms therefore is a slippery slope lined with two edged swords the entire way down and it may cut you as you slip down it as it might cut those you seek to cut with it, my advice... it's a rhetorical dead end, don't go there... regroup and try a different basis for arguing against homosexuality.
For truthfully, the respect for rugged individualism is as much the basis of conservative notions of personal liberty among some conservatives as it might be for some liberals and progressives. Other conservatives and liberals have cookie-cutter notions of norms that need to be enforced as harshly as the Taliban on the right, or the Bolshevics on the left, and will sacrifice the freedom and individualism of others in their own party or even own set of beliefs and neither left or right are they on the side of personal freedom. Truly I urge you not to choose that side, for there are liberals and conservatives alike, even radicals, who are on the side of freedom and are not in the mindset to enforce norms. Let's not return to and perpetuate the horrors we endured in the police state of the sixth grade where so much as a fart would have the entire grade level buzzing about your transgression unless you can quickly redirect the mob to something someone else is doing that they'd find just as objectionable. After all, when adults play that childish game people get hurt.
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Re: 'Gay' gene claim suddenly vanishes
Mon, June 15, 2009 - 2:22 PMI wonder if the APA is undergoing an organized right wing nut take over. Right wingers have used this strategy many times to get the changes they want from an organization. (boyscouts, newspapers, news channels, city councils, etc...)
