Heated Debate's topics - tribe.net

When I Say "I Am A Christian"

2010-01-06T07:15:28Z

I StumbledUpon this...thoughts?

http://wilk4.com/misc/whenisay.htm

When I Say "I Am A Christian"
by Carol Wimmer

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I am saved"
I'm whispering "I get lost!"
"That is why I chose this way."

When I say..."I am a Christian"
don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
and need someone to be my guide.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
and pray for strength to carry on.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
and cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
my flaws are too visible
but God believes I'm worth it.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain
I have my share of heartaches
which is why I seek His name.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I do not wish to judge.
I have no authority.
I only know I'm loved.

posted in Heated Debate - 49 replies

Jason claims Woodie Guthrie was not political

2010-01-06T06:59:20Z

http://intellectualbarbarian.tribe.net/thread/3ed9dfd4-eb10-4df3-984f-480dfcd6bf85

what a retard.

posted in Heated Debate - 8 replies

christmas alone

2010-01-06T06:55:42Z

christmas alone
with a hand gun or
sleeping pills
this will be the last
I'll show you
a cruel world who never cared about me
I'll be gone and
you'll be sorry
you won't have me to ...
to....
to kick around anymore.

Merry Christmas
goodbye.

posted in Heated Debate - 12 replies

jason leary queer

2010-01-05T20:07:53Z

he moan for the gang bang

his ass easy to fuk like a pussy

posted in Heated Debate - 26 replies

A Letter To God From Jason By Proxy

2010-01-05T19:07:24Z

To: God
From: Jason

Dear God,
While I believe in your existance and your ability to carry out the plan you have for all of mankind, I must express certain grievances.
1. The penis you have seen fit to equip man with is gutwrenchingly ugly and unacceptable. You knew in advance that I would disapprove and I question your decision to allow it to remain as such. As I berrate mankind for seeing beauty in it, I think you are a fucking schmuck for even considering going against my views and opinions. You should be deeply ashamed for making the divine creation so distasteful.
2. The butts you have placed on humans lack symmetry and continuity and you should be flogged for even considering this abbhorition without my consent. You have gone against everything moral and ethical, much to my disdain. You should be ashamed of yourself as you knew I would not approve.
3. The pleasure of sex is a deplorable thing. How dare you make anything outside procreation pleasurable! You knew my views on procreation were that it be a somber and mechanical event. Once again you have disappointed me and you should be ashamed.
4. I do not know what in the fuck you were thinking making some people homosexual, some people bisexual and the rest of us heterosexual when you know damn good and well I said we were to be put here for procreation ONLY! Did you not get my memo? You are not running this motherfucker I AM! So unless you wish to experience my wrathful guilt, you had better fix this!!!
5.This free will thing was your idea even though you knew ahead of time that I would greatly disapprove of ANYONE having the god given right to do as they pleased. I am pissed at you for not following MY law and MY beliefs to make every person do as I say. This makes you a sex positive relativist and I do not approve of your design of the kitchy female bodies.

God you have completely ignored my wishes and made humans as you damn well pleased. This is unacceptable and as such I find that you are postmodern MTV era sell out degenerate trash. I love you and I believe in your divine wisdom and purpose, but FUCK! You simply do not get that I am more important than you and I demand you change your program to suit ME! And DO IT NOW OR ELSE!

Signed,
Your Faithful Follwer,
Jason Leary

P,S. If you insist on
allowing these people
free will, I will cancel
my subscription to
your bullshit!!!!

posted in Heated Debate - 75 replies

jason leary queery

2010-01-02T23:35:08Z

fag like dat jus make me wanna hurt dat boy.

stick a dick in his mouth

make him shut up

dat boy never shut up

posted in Heated Debate - 7 replies

JASON, ADVOCATE OF MURDER! Say It Aint So!

2010-01-02T19:27:12Z

In an exchange with our esteemed hatemonger Jason, I discovered that he in fact supports the murder of certain people. I present to you the following exchange in which Jason tries to justify the killing of women and children as is written in the ancient book of lies and hearsay called The Bible.

<<<Deuteronomy 2
32Then Sihon came out against us, he and all his people, to fight at Jahaz.
33And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his sons, and all his people.
34And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain:

ADAM POSTED :No, it doesnt say HOW , just that the men women and little ones were destroyed. These intrinsic values that I have been waiting since OCTOBER for you to write down, I wonder which one will mandate the killing of women and children in the manner described in the Bible. Because those values would have existed at that time and would still hold today. And after all, they were sanctioned by GOD, so I'll be curious to see how it applies today.

RESPONSE: IF their genetic material was so distorted by incestuous practices as to be something of mutants of sort who were prone to violence, then as horribly sad and lamentable as the prospect was then maybe some sort of mercy killing was the last resort sort of option and I would be inclined ---given the goodness of God ---that he intervened somehow to orchestrate the deaths of those fermale and child suvellians to be as painless as possible .>>>

Instead of the real reason for those people going to murder, rape, plunder, disembowel pregnant women and dash infants heads against rocks being that Moses and AAron told these people to go take the land God promised them, Jason makes this weird throwed off bullshit excuse that the people being murdered were incestuous. Typical Jasonoid mentality, but nonetheless FALSE.

He also claims that a pregnant woman would not feel much pain because God would have mercy on them for being killed in such a manner. I told you Jason was a fucking sick-o murderous motherfucker, now I have proof.

By the statement he presents here, he approves of MANDATORY abortions, abortions on demand and mankinds judging of others as unfit to live if they are products of incest. He judges infants of incest as "prone to violence", are therefore unworthy of living. I told everyone this fucker is a serial killer looking for a place to happen. His throwed off notions are not benign. They will only fester into actions based on these weird sexual aversions. And in the same manner he ascribes relativism to those who know the difference between right and wrong, so shall he misjudge those he seeks to kill for other sexually perverted reasons. The motherfucker is SICK!!!

I have asked him since October to produce a list of intrinsic virtues, but in light of this new disturbing information I'd like to know of ONLY ONE, the one that allows for murder when practiced in the absolute. So come on you throwed off motherfucker, which virtue mandates murder? Which virtue were you practicing in the absolute that makes excuses for murder? It seems to me that I am far more virtuous than you because I do not advocate murder unless it is absolutely necessary. Now fuckboy, come tell us how goddamned self righteous you are while advocating the murder of incest victems. Come on bitch boy and tell us what virtue leads you to murder. HOW can you ever justify the murder of an innocent infant? You baby killing bitch, tell us how you'd have it carried out if you were to be passing out your insipid gods fucking commands.

I knew it was only a matter of time before your true colors came shining through. I told you that I will not let you wiggle out of this one and I goddamn sure mean it. All of that trash you talked about abortion on demand being WRONG, you lying motherfucker you APPROVE OF IT!!! You advocate abortion through the pregnant womans belly with a goddamned sword!!! You are a LIAR. LIAR LIAR LIAR!!!! Hypocrite and motherfucking baby killing bitch comes to mind too. You pathetic fucking bitch, there remains no further excuse for you. You are OUT OF EXCUSES! You rotted festering piece of phagocytic shit, BACK TO THE GUTTER WITH YOU! Cum burping closet whore. You have made everything you have preached about A LIE, because you Sir are a LIAR! What virtue mandates that you lie, huh bitch?

Your murderous trashy assed god and your bitch ass criminal on a stick Jesus cant bail you out of this one motherfucker! You dug the hole, I'm kickin dirt in your murderous bitch ass baby killing face. HOW dare you....I knew you had it in you to murder or advocate murder. Because nobody with your throwed off sexuall aversion disorder comes out here to talk so much about sex without some hidden agenda. Otherwise it would disturb you far too much to deal with on a regular basis. I pull your SICK-O card yet AGAIN!!!

So come on you closet gossiping kitchist playmongering MTV yuppie era psychobabblist pathetic punk, tell us how Plato advocated murder and agreed that incest victems should be judged for death. Tell us assholio, tell us how you justify this baby killing attitude of yours. Show us those who are with you in killing babies born of incest and those who advocate the mandatory abortions of those who are victems of incest. You played the card bitch, now call the shots....

posted in Heated Debate - 34 replies

How We Mark Time

2010-01-02T19:15:03Z

http://www.twentynot2000.com/

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/12/31/a-little-decadence/#comments

Whatever you call it-- Happy New Year.

posted in Heated Debate - 2 replies

Councilman Under Fire for Being Atheist

2010-01-01T14:09:56Z

Dumb ass America:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-hometown-asheville20-2009dec20,0,7698813.story

posted in Heated Debate - 5 replies

Who are you, cowards...that afraid to stand

2009-12-31T17:45:38Z

for truth.
i do not know where to start
the usa civil war?
JFK?
RFK?
maybe... nine eleven

posted in Heated Debate - 38 replies

Obstruction At Andrews Air Force Base

2009-12-29T19:49:08Z

Obstruction at Andrews AFB

“A growing body of evidence supports the inference that these 19 men were patsies for forces within the United States government… This [Moussaoui] trial appears to be yet one more illustration of Karl Rove’s policy of ‘creating our own reality’ to serve the political goals of the administration, even when it comes at the cost of the lives and the security of the American people. The idea that Bush is ‘the security president’ is just a cruel joke!”
— James H. Fetzer, Ph.D., Professor at the University of Minnesota
Why couldn’t Andrews AFB, only 13 miles away, protect the Capital immediately after the 2nd WTC crash at 9:03 am?

Andrews Air Force Base Units (“In their own words” from the Andrews AFB website 2001).

113th Wing (DCANG) “Capitol Guardians”
The 113th now flies the F-16C Fighting Falcon … Training for air combat and operational airlift for national defense is the 113th’s primary mission. However, as part of its dual mission, the 113th provides capable and ready response forces for the District of Columbia in the event of a natural disaster or civil emergency.

Marine Aircraft Group 49, Det. A “Hell’s Angels”
In the best tradition of the Marine Corps, a “few good men and women” support two combat-ready reserve units at Andrews AFB. Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 321, a Marine Corps Reserve squadron, flies the sophisticated F/A-18 Hornet. Marine Aviation Logistics Squadron 49, Detachment A, provides maintenance and supply functions necessary to maintain a force in readiness.[i] [Emphasis added]

As we can see from the above information that was derived from their own Andrews AFB website, there was more than one combat unit capable of a rapid response. The 113th Wing of the ANG and the Marine Fighter Attack Squadron (VMFA) 321, flying the F-16 and the FA-18 respectively, were only 13 miles away — seconds away for supersonic jet fighters! The 113th Wings mission statement is — ”They stand ready to respond to the needs of the District of Columbia — and the nation — should the need arise.”
However when military was confronted and they realized the contradiction, they responded as such:

The Andrews-based 121st Fighter Sqdn. was not standing alert on Sept. 11, because the District of Columbia Air National Guard (DCANG) unit was not assigned to the North American Aerospace Defense Command air defense force. NORAD had already scrambled three F-16s from their alert base at Langley AFB, Va. to over the Atlantic Ocean, to the east [opposite direction].[ii]
The military sure uses a lot of excuses — is there a pattern here?

F-16s from Andrews AFB were flown over 200 miles away from the Pentagon, for a training mission. Did some one order that mission to purposely leave the D.C. area unguarded?
Three F-16s were sent to fly an air-to-ground training mission to drop some bombs and hit a refueling tanker, on a range in North Carolina.111 These F-16s were rearmed for bombing practice and sent all the way to North Carolina, 207 mi. further South of D.C. But even after they were sent on the diversionary mission, they still were only 12 min. from Washington when the Pentagon was struck!
Coincidently, another unit in close proximity to the WTC, the Atlantic City Air Station, (minutes from WTC) was also sent at the same time to conduct “bombing practice” with it’s F-16s!
To believe the official version of events, you are asked to “trust us” and expected to blindly and patriotically follow a fable.
And this leads to another problem with the government’s story — people are told over and over, that they have to believe just one more time, that there was just another coincidence of poor decision-making, bad communication, or ineptness. This is the recurring excuse that plays over and over like a bad record. While another broken record plays in the foreground on all the mainstream medias, it shrills, “War on Terror” … “War on Terror” …”Bin Laden did it” … “Bin Laden” … This “broken record” is to remind us that, “Patriotism = Silence” — just in case you thought of questioning the official parody.
…

8:46 a.m. – Fighters are training over North Carolina — they are not recalled to Washington until much later.
However, it is only when they are halfway back to Andrews that lead pilot Major Billy Hutchison is able to talk to the “acting Supervisor of Flying” at Andrews, Lt. Col. Phil Thompson, who tells him to return to the base “buster” (as fast as his aircraft will fly). After landing back at Andrews, Hutchison is told to take off immediately, and does so at 10:33 a.m.(that’s almost 2 hours!!!)111 At least one of these F-16s could have returned from North Carolina to Washington within ten minutes and have been patrolling the skies well before 9:00 a.m.! Why weren’t they? F-16s can fly at a maximum speed of 1,500 mph. (That’s 200 miles in about 9 minutes!)

9:03 a.m. – The Secret Service calls and asks whether Andrews can scramble fighters.
According to the weapons officer, Major Dan Caine, who takes this call, a Secret Service agent then tells him “to stand by and that somebody else [will] call.”111

9:37 a.m. – Andrew’s Pilots aware of crisis but still on ground!
The unit’s maintenance section was notified to get several F-16s armed and ready to fly. Anticipating such an order, Col. Don C. Mozley, the 113th Logistics Group commander, had already ordered his weapons officer to “break out the AIM-9s and start building them up… The missiles had to be transported from a bunker on the other side of the base, which would take a while.”111 This last statement is strange. Senior Master Sergeant David Bowman, 113th Wing munitions supervisor, says, “We were doing it as fast as we could, because for all we knew the terrorists were getting ready to hit us. ... It normally takes three hours to get weapons from the storage sheds and load them onto the fighters." Why would readiness aircraft have missiles stored on the other side of the base? How could they scramble to make interceptions, like they have done countless times before 9/11? No, they are not that dumb, it’s just another example of using deliberate ploys to explain away why they purposefully did everything in their power to not engage any of the targets that day. They believed the public would buy their unacceptable lies and excuses.111
However, the loading of missiles onto the fighters becomes very time consuming, and when these fighters finally take off nearly an hour later, they will launch without the missiles installed! 111 [Wow, that’s amazing!]
“I have no idea what’s going on, but we’re flying.”
After the Pentagon is hit, fighters at nearby Andrews Air Force Base are still preparing to launch. At some unknown point, flight squad commander Lieutenant Colonel Marc Sasseville assembles three F-16 pilots and gives them a curt briefing. He recalls saying, “I have no idea what’s going on, but we’re flying. Here’s our frequency. We’ll split up the area as we have to. Just defend as required. We’ll talk about the rest in the air.” All four of them dress up and get ready.111
How is it possible they “have no idea what’s going on”? They obviously had known about the WTC attacks earlier that morning, then the Pentagon attack at 9:37 a.m., then the Shanksville shoot down at 10:03 a.m.; so by the time that they were taking off at 10:42 a.m., it was 2 hours from the time of the first attack. Impressions that could be derived from commander Sasseville’s statements is that, he was in the Twilight Zone for two-hours.
After the aerial response was derailed, and the Pentagon attacked, there now is a flood of calls for action.
Meanwhile, a “flood” of calls from the Secret Service and local FAA flight control centers pour into Andrews, as the fighter response is still grounded. A Secret Service agent again contacts Andrews Air Force base and commands, “Get in the air now!” [Now that everything is over!] According to fighter pilot Lieutenant Colonel Marc Sasseville, almost simultaneously he gets a call from someone else in the White House declaring the Washington area “a free-fire zone”. “That meant we were given authority to use force, if the situation required it, in defense of the nation’s capital, its property, and people.” One officer at Andrews recalls, “After the Pentagon was hit, we were told there were more [airliners] coming. Not might be — they were coming.”111 However, this appeared not to be the case, since everything that was going to happen that day — already did happen. [The neocon’s new Pearl Harbor show was over.]

10:42 a.m. – Marc Sasseville and Heather Penney, take off from Andrews.
Before taking off, their planes undergo a two-hour process to load 20mm training rounds! (Essentially over-sized bullets) These three pilots will therefore not be patrolling the skies above Washington until after about 10:45 a.m.111 Does anyone see a pattern here yet!

General David Wherley, flight commander of the Air National Guard at Andrews, made several phone calls that morning, seeking airborne authorization for his fighters.
Wherley had contacted the Secret Service after hearing reports that it wanted fighters airborne. One Secret Service agent, using two telephones at once, relays instructions to Wherley from another Secret Service agent in the White House, who had been given instructions from Vice President Cheney. Wherley’s fighters are to protect the White House and shoot down any planes that threaten Washington D.C. Wherley gives Lieutenant Colonel Marc Sasseville, lead pilot, the authority to decide whether to execute a shoot down. President Bush and Vice President Cheney later claim they were not aware that any fighters had scrambled from Andrews at the request of the Secret Service.97

Several procedures were put into motion to initiate and prolong the stand down. Excuses were fabricated in a myriad of deception.
1) Rumsfeld removed authority from his commanders to respond to airborne terrorist attacks with his DoD directive issued three months earlier. Thus, base Flight Commanders were in actuality, serving more as expensive administrative assistants.
2) A high-ranking official ordered the diversionary bombing practice in North Carolina.
3) Then, the pilots were purposefully delayed in returning to Andrews AFB.
4) Somebody purposefully delayed the launching of the F-16s, by ordering the rearmament of 20mm rounds. This was completely unnecessary! They would never have used these guns.
5) And somebody purposefully delayed the launching of the F-16s with a drag-your-feet missile rearmament. These missiles can be attached in minutes.
After all the above tactics were utilized, and the damage to the country sustained, there would be a battle cry for the base to respond. This would give the perpetrators an alibi––that they did indeed try to thwart the attack.

General Timeline of Andrews Response
8:45 am. – 1st WTC crash.
9:03 am. – 2nd WTC crash.
9:37 am. – Pentagon attack (official time).
10:42 a.m. – Sasseville and the pilot code-named Lucky will take off.
After 10:37 a.m. – Hutchison et al. will take off.
Over 1½ hours for F-16s, of a readiness squadron, to respond to a national emergency
From: http://911exposed.org/

posted in Heated Debate - 5 replies

hate

2009-12-28T16:39:03Z

discuss

posted in Heated Debate - 20 replies

9-11: Truth or Consequences

2009-12-28T13:27:44Z

http://www.911missinglinks.com/

sometimes you get a choice in what you feel comfortable with

listen to or watch this link
you are already programmed to not believe what you have already been 'told'

posted in Heated Debate - 27 replies

Flight 93 Shootdown

2009-12-28T00:18:07Z

Flight 93 Shootdown

This an interview with a woman using an alias who claims to have been an enlisted soldier at Ft. Meade and who was privy as an assigned “coffee getter” to the quickly assembled emergency meeting where a decision was made to shoot down Flight 93 which is the flight that was allegedly flown into the ground during a struggle between hijackers and passengers. That crash has been dramatized in various versions in the movies and has always been an emotional centerpiece of the Official 911 Legend.
Assuming this woman’s story is genuine, it depicts how our air defenses are supposed to work and that with regard to the Pentagon crash Cheney had, in effect, created a bubble around the Pentagon/White House airspace in which his recently minted status as shootdown decision maker overruled normal military protocol thus clearing the way for the Pentagon impact which was part and parcel of the 911 terror imagery that then eventually paved the way for the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
The interview also highlights the “witness dilemma.” Witnesses and whistleblowers are understandably intimidated by the potential repercussions of coming forward with their stories. A new 911 inquiry with witness protection and amnesty for whistleblowers would probably bring hundreds of people like this woman “in out of the cold”

“--- I remember the distinct feeling inside of me when I saw on the news that there was this story that there were terrorists on this plane, and that the people overtook the pilot and crashed the plane, and how this was leaking out as these people being heroes. And I remember the extreme moral frustration inside of me, of feeling:
But that’s not true! That’s not true at all..”

“BR: But that the order to do that was given by people who had no idea -- assuming it was true that 9/11 was an inside job. They believed that this was real. They didn’t know what was happening. They were following strict, very well-defined, military protocol.
If you’ve got a plane flying towards a secure military establishment that won’t respond, it doesn’t matter who’s onboard, the protocol says that you shoot it down.
Because, in a war setting that morning after the tower in New York -- seen from these guys’ points of view, who presumably weren’t in the loop -- they have to assume that there could be an atomic weapon onboard, there could be high explosives, there could be anything at all. And they have to do what the military do best. Is that an accurate summary ?
EN: Absolutely.”

Elizabeth Nelson (alias)

http://www.projectcamelot.org/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93.html (Audio)

http://www.projectcamelot.org/elizabeth_nelson_flight_93_transcript.html (Transcript)

_____________________________________________________________________________

Another one of Rumsfeld’s famous slips of tongue - this one concerning Flight 93 having been “shot down over Pennsylvania.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX78zSjnY1s

_____________________________________________________________________________

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AikIALXwSmI (Cheney’s orders to let the Pentagon flight come in without interception)

http://911exposed.org/ (Very good site on the Pentagon hoax)

posted in Heated Debate - 15 replies

Celebrating the "Solstice" Retards

2009-12-25T00:05:42Z

Look, you can attempt, in a post modern frenzy, to have your cake and eat it too. You can secularize the religious celebration as much as you want, citing Kwanza and Chanukka and the Solstice, but you are STILL being religious.

Sure, it's not Christianity. But as a strict atheist, I must point out that celebrating the Solstice is A: Just as irrational as christianity, and B: Just as religious.

It's a Pagan celebration, and for all the 2nd year communications majors who have forgotten that Paganism is actually a Religion, let me remind you that it is. Trading one absurdity for another, no matter how exotic, is still an absurdity.

If you do it to be counter to the mainstream and to piss off your parents, have at it. But if you do it because you think the solstice is magical, self aware and recognizes your fancy hat party you might as well get with the folks who see Jesus in burnt toast.

Here is a better idea. FUCK CHRISTMAS, FUCK THE HOLIDAYS, FUCK TRADTION. Just dump it all. Trust me, you will feel better.

Now, back to Starbucks with you.

posted in Heated Debate - 34 replies

911 + Pulling 180's and Pulling Your Leg

2009-12-24T16:17:53Z

Multiple witness accounts of a military C-130 aircraft near the scene of the Pentagon attack presented a big problem for the “Official Legend” of the 911 Pentagon strike. Caught in the most obvious lie was NORAD which had to change its story of incompetence several times in order to explain why normal air defenses were AWOL on 911. The C-130 story has turned out to be one of the biggest Achilles Heels of the 911 stage piece. It points in several unexpected directions.
This little riff starts with NORAD’s fraudulent “blindness” to the incoming alleged Flight 77 aimed at the Pentagon, using that blindness as an excuse not to scramble interceptor fighter jets while in fact it was being tracked by Cheney's bunker command post as well as the FAA,, and ends with the shredding of FAA air traffic controller statements about the events of 911. Weaving in and out of this is the mysterious C-130 which was probably intimately involved in guiding whatever hit the Pentagon.

“For one, why was the C-130 following and guiding a jet toward the Pentagon? Why was it circling above the Pentagon just prior to the attack? And why was this exact plane spotted, and even confirmed by the military, over Shanksville during Flight 93’s crash? And most importantly, how was the government promptly able to launch a transport plane, but unable to launch any high-speed fighters?” (911exposed.org/C130.htm)
____________________________________________________________________________

Why did a Civilian Air Traffic Controller do a Better Job of Defending the Skies on 9/11 than NORAD?

By Arabesque
Was the Pentagon or NORAD "unaware" of the plane (alleged Flight 77) flying towards the Pentagon on 9/11? There is no compelling evidence to support such an assertion. In fact, there is very strong evidence that the plane was being observed as it flew towards the Pentagon. In testimony to the 9/11 commission, it was reported that:

“During the time that the airplane [alleged flight 77] was coming [towards] the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President...the plane is 50 miles out...the plane is 30 miles out....and when it got down to the plane is 10 miles out, the young man also said to the vice president ‘do the orders still stand?’ And the Vice President [Dick Cheney] turned and whipped his neck around and said ‘Of course the orders still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary!??’”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GO-9LQDFE2Y

Dick Cheney also admitted on a live TV interview that, "The Secret Service has an arrangement with the F.A.A. They had open lines after the World Trade Center was… [struck]”

This was also confirmed by an FAA spokesperson who also revealed to the 9/11 Commission (but completely omitted from the final report):
“Within minutes after the first aircraft hit the World Trade Center, the FAA immediately established several phone bridges that included FAA field facilities, the FAA Command Center, FAA headquarters, DOD [meaning the NMCC in the Department of Defense], the Secret Service… The US Air Force liaison to the FAA immediately joined the FAA headquarters phone bridge and established contact with NORAD… The FAA shared real-time information on the phone bridges about the unfolding events, including information about loss of communication with aircraft, loss of transponder signals, unauthorized changes in course, and other actions being taken by all the flights of interest.”
Based on these and other facts, all on the record and irrefutable, there was clear knowledge and awareness of the plane incoming to the Pentagon. In fact, there is additional evidence strongly suggesting knowledge of this incoming plane. During the time of the plane incoming to the Pentagon, a C-130 Pilot was ordered to intercept the plane incoming to the Pentagon:
The C130 encountered flight 77 west of the Pentagon and literally followed it as it crashed into the pentagon. This is the first we learned of this aircraft (Norad did not mention it at the hearing). It raises a number of questions..."
One of these important questions raised is overlooked by many, including by members of the 9/11 truth movement. How was a C-130 pilot able to intercept the plane incoming to the Pentagon while NORAD was not? Significantly, we know from established reports that it was not NORAD who requested the C-130 to intercept the plane incoming to the Pentagon. In fact, it was a civilian air traffic controller from Reagan National Airport who asked the C-130 to intercept the incoming plane:
“When air traffic control asked me if we had him [Flight 77] in sight, I told him that was an understatement—by then, he had pretty much filled our windscreen. Then he made a pretty aggressive turn so he was moving right in front of us, a mile and a half, two miles away. I said we had him in sight, then the controller asked me what kind of plane it was. That caught us up, because normally they have all that information. The controller didn’t seem to know anything.”
The controller "seemed to know" that there was a plane coming into the Pentagon. That's not an insignificant detail. This begs an obvious question overlooked by many: How could a civilian air traffic controller do a better job of intercepting aircraft on 9/11 than NORAD? Oddly enough (or perhaps not), the C-130 pilot was also 17 miles away from flight 93 when it crashed.

Also relevant to this mystery is that key officials were in fact promoted while none received demotions following the 9/11 attacks and that NORAD gave three contradictory explanations for its actions on 9/11. There are widespread reports of the plane being observed as it flew towards the Pentagon so it cannot be reasonably claimed that NORAD was "unaware" of the plane incoming to the Pentagon. In light of these and other facts, it is even more puzzling that a civilian air traffic controller was able to do what NORAD could not on 9/11.

http://arabesque911.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-did-civilian-air-traffic-controller.html

_________________________________________________________________

And from the excellent 911 web site "911exposed" on the same topic:

911exposed.org/C130.htm

Despite numerous terrorist attacks and a FAA grounding Andrews AFB launches a routine C-130 across the nation!
Was it a routine flight? The C-130 (call sign: Golfer 06) was at both the Pentagon and Shanksville at the time of each attack. It was highly classified. (Since when is a routine ANG flight so classified that nobody at the Pentagon or NORAD knows!) And most importantly, we know that the government tried to cover it up for as long as they could, 36 days. Was it an EC-130 (electronic warfare version of C-130) on a sinister highly classified mission? How was this C-130 able to take off from Andrews AFB when the FAA issued a ground stop for all planes, including military, five minutes before?

At 9:25, The FAA in collaboration from the White House, initiated a national ground stop, which forbids takeoffs and requires planes in the air to get down as soon as reasonable. The order...applied to virtually every single kind of machine that can takeoff — civilian, military, [and] law enforcement.178

And so the fable began:

About 9:30 a.m., O’Brien throttled the lumbering plane down a runway at Andrews Air Force Base, just southeast of the District of Columbia …[xii]

Even though his account is rather immature and laced with inconsistencies, it was a clever ploy to turn an embarrassing and incriminating incident into something rather contrary. Since the government seemed to be coming up short of good evidence in substantiating it’s story, it appears that they elected to craft this “I saw the plane” tale. The tale would, like others before him (Donald “Tim” Timmerman — who fell on his face on CNN), attempt to unequivocally state that it was an American Airlines 757 — Flight 77.
This of course was just spin, while the real questions were being circumvented. For one, why was the C-130 following and guiding a jet toward the Pentagon? Why was it circling above the Pentagon just prior to the attack? And why was this exact plane spotted, and even confirmed by the military, over Shanksville during Flight 93’s crash? And most importantly, how was the government promptly able to launch a transport plane, but unable to launch any high-speed fighters?

The reality was … eyewitnesses tracked his plane flying directly above a low-flying airliner and guiding it to the Pentagon. It was seen circling above the Pentagon before the airliner allegedly crashed into the Pentagon. Also at Shanksville, the C-130 was there circling before the shoot down occurred. So unless everyone else is a liar… And what he was really doing there can only be left up to the imagination…
___________________________________________________________________

Destruction of Air Traffic Controllers’ Post-911 Audio Tapes
Information provided to the commission investigating the U.S. government's response to terrorist threats prior to September 11, 2001, names an FAA quality manager in the destruction of an audiotape made in the aftermath of the 9/11 hijackings. Each of at least six air traffic controllers and some ten other employees who were on the job at the New York Air Route Traffic Control Center (ARTCC) in Ronkonkoma, N.Y., during the World Trade Center attacks gathered several hours after to recall their version of events. But that tape, which could have helped determine how the agency responded to clues that four planes had been hijacked, was destroyed before it was ever heard. In fact, officials at the ARTCC were never even told of the tape's existence. According to the report given to the 9/11 Commission by Department of Transportation Inspector General Kenneth Mead, the audiotape was crushed in the hand of the unnamed FAA employee, then cut into small pieces and tossed into different trash cans around the ARTCC building. Despite the fact that the quality assurance officer had been told to retain all records pertaining to 9/11, he told inspector general investigators he destroyed the tape because he felt making it was contrary to FAA policy, which calls for written statements. He is also quoted to have said the controllers "were not in the correct frame of mind to have properly consented to the taping" because of the stress of the day, and told investigators that faced with a similar situation, he would repeat his actions.
Inspector General Mead told the 9/11 commission the employee showed "poor judgment," and in calling for administrative action, said the employee's attitude about the destruction was "especially troubling." The FAA confirms disciplinary action has been taken against the employee, but will not say what that action was, or identify the employee. Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) says the matter could be investigated further.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/187259-1.html

posted in Heated Debate - 22 replies

The Problem With Absolutism

2009-12-23T18:57:37Z

The Golden Mean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_mean_(philosophy)

http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o45/Luridhope/Virtues.jpg

posted in Heated Debate - 60 replies

The Abrahamic religions riot, all courts are tainted, 50 senates must divest, or our costs doom us, AND YOU THINK JESUS WILL SAVE YOU?!

2009-12-23T01:51:54Z

Piper Bam tried to LOSE, to Sam Joe Worse, III. Schmoe is on Debate III, for A HALF-HOUR! Experienced Bush-pilot John out-dove K-Bam! President 44 is due to take a round from Clint's magnum of doom, probably by losing a bolt into AF1 and AF2, both. Why is Hillary laughing?

Jews are from Ethiopia. Oreo-gobbling plumbers are from Ohio. Cane toads might turn up, in the White House, at parties, at the inauguration, IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

Down goes Barack, 2011.

So why do any retards think Christians get to agendize volunteerism, coerce Rothschilds and Disraeli to sedition, and then gather against their own laws, to undermine due process in the USA, and then fund a Bureau of Idiot Affairs, with Chinese dollars, having suppressed how the Ming White Fleet sailed around, dropped arrowheads, crossbows, and wrecked sailors off in the 1430s, so the killing fields pf Europe caused Isabella to send Columbus, to find Chinese, AND YOU SUPPRESSED HOW THE I-CHING, MAYAN CALENDAR, AND PANMUNJON DOOM CHINESE CREDITOR HOLDINGS, IF THEY INTRODUCE NO REFORMS, in the riotous USA?

Christians are doomed, evil idiots.

By incitement of riot, from illegal establishment, the USA and several states may be sued, to chill, ANY SECOND NOW, in USDC.

Good morning, DDs! ALL RIOT. Get it? All rise, all shut up, ALL RIOT, so chill, babies, and don't lose your makeup to streaks, all at once.

posted in Heated Debate - 2 replies

you

2009-12-22T20:06:03Z

A Conspiracy-Theory Theory
How to fend off the people who insist they know the 'real story' behind everything.

By DAVID AARONOVITCH

This season's fashion in conspiracy theories—for those out of the loop of enlightenment—concerns health. The Web sites, marginal cable shows and radio phone-ins are full of tales about how Big Pharma and Bad Government are deliberately spreading diseases or manufacturing scares in order to sell us expensive drugs, gull us into dangerous vaccinations or just simply to create an atmosphere of panic which will allow "them" to take over.

Swine flu? The disease was created in a lab by a shadowy company, which had associations with ultra-baddies Donald Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney and Israel, and released to sell the company's top product. HIV? According to a documentary called "House of Numbers," now doing the rounds of the highbrow film festivals, the link between HIV and AIDS is a fiction developed by pharmaceutical companies and AIDS activists to boost the profits of the former and the jobs of the latter. Cervical cancer vaccination? As one of my wife's acquaintances—a highly educated and intelligent woman—put it in an anguished round-robin email a few weeks ago, "girls have died in the U.S." from the vaccination, and the pharmaceutical companies know, but don't care as long as they make their profits.

We live in age of conspiracies, or rather, we are more aware of conspiracy theories than we used to be. Theories involving the hidden hand reproduce on the Internet and instantly jump borders. Giving the stories plausible heft are the exotic sites and TV stations now beaming everywhere, their studios, anchors and Web sites looking as professional and reliable as those of CNN, ABC News or the BBC. Channels such as Russia Today, Iran's Press TV and Al Jazeera pass on theories involving the supposed "real stories" behind world affairs to millions. Globalization not only assists with the spread of conspiracy theories, but because it causes such rapid change—in migration, jobs, security threats and the way we live—it leaves people desperate for clear, comforting answers. It is better to think that someone is in charge of everything than that the world is more often prey to accidents, madness and coincidence. That's why movies are full of dastardly but brilliant plotters, and hardly anything happens by chance.

This isn't new, of course. The Jewish Big Plan for world dominion was, in many ways, the first of the modern conspiracy theories. The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" were widely believed and widely disseminated, particularly among the educated and professional classes in continental Europe after World War I. Henry Ford was one of their chief distributors in the U.S. The "Protocols" may also be one of the most effective of conspiracy theories, seeing use in pre-war German classrooms, providing a basis for the extermination of the European Jews and, more recently being screened on Iranian television for the instruction of youth.

These cyber-driven days, each new U.S. president has attracted theories of his own, assiduously spread mostly by partisans of the other side. So the saturnine Bill Clinton murdered Vince Foster and a whole lot of men in Arkansas (we won't discuss what he did with the women of Arkansas), the infernal George W. Bush brought down the twin towers, and the foreign Barack Obama isn't an American at all, and has plotted to cover it up. Interestingly out-of-power Democrats are far more likely to believe the theories about in-power Republicans, and powerless Republicans far more likely to believe them about powerful Democrats. One aspect of conspiracy theories is that they are history for losers.

It doesn't always feel like that. Many of us, of course, are not believers but simply find ourselves confronted at a dinner party by the man who just knows the "real story," and has arrived armed with his killer facts and certainty. You on the other hand, have nothing but your instinct for nonsense. So, for everyone who has been, or will be, in that woeful position, I offer this short guide to how conspiracy theories work, the better to rebut them.

Even where conspiracy theories are not momentous, and may sometimes be physically (if not intellectually) harmless—such as with the gorgeous slew of nonsenses that prefaced "The Da Vinci Code," involving Templars, secret priories, hidden treasures and the bloodline of Christ—they share certain features that make them work.

These include an appeal to precedent, self-heroization, contempt for the benighted masses, a claim to be only asking "disturbing questions," invariably exaggerating the status and expertise of supporters, the use of apparently scholarly ways of laying out arguments (or "death by footnote"), the appropriation of imagined Secret Service jargon, circularity in logic, hydra-headedness in growing new arguments as soon as old ones are chopped off, and, finally, the exciting suggestion of persecution. These characteristics help them to convince intelligent people of deeply unintelligent things.

I've only rarely come across a modern conspiracy theory that doesn't seek to establish supposed historical precedents for whatever the conspiracy is—arguing that since it has happened before, there is nothing unnatural about it happening again. Sometimes the history can be voluminous; I was present at one large 9/11 Truth meeting in London in 2005, which began with the revelation that the Gunpowder Plot of 1605 was an inside job (James I's chief minister Robert Cecil, if you want to know) and progressed through the Reichstag fire, the Gulf of Tonkin and the '60s assassinations, before making the devilish administration's attack on its own cities seem like an almost inevitable progression.

The second characteristic is the implication that the theorist and his co-believers are part of a brave insurgency against a corrupt elite or a stifling orthodoxy. It is of course, an ironic pleasure to witness a West Coast academic tell an audience of Danish professionals at the Copenhagen Central Library with regard to 9/11, that "members of the elite of our society may not think that the truth should be revealed." By contrast, he seemed to be suggesting, belief in the conspiracy makes you part of a genuinely heroic anti-elite elite group who can see past an official version propagated for the benefit of the lazy or inert mass of people by the powers that be. Now, you have to admit, to be such a rebel while risking so little is cool.

Cool too is the special quality of thought required to appreciate the existence of the conspiracy. If the conspiracists have cracked the code, it is not least because of their possession of an unusual and perceptive way of looking at things. Those who cannot or will not see the now-revealed truth are variously described as robots or, latterly, as sheep—citizens who shuffle half-awake through their conventional lives. Erich Von Daniken, propagator of the theory that aliens built the pyramids, commended his own courage for writing his books in the teeth of the "reactionary flood" and his readers for their courage in reading them. The authors of "The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail," the "non-fiction"book that lay behind "The Da Vinci Code," argued that they had developed a new form of scholarship which allowed them to see connections invisible to stuffy old academics.

And then there is the violent innocence of much conspiracism, in which the theorist is "only asking questions" about the official version of the truth, and doesn't go so far as to have a theory himself—other than it is impossible that JFK was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald alone, that the moon landing happened in the way the world imagined, that Al Qaeda terrorists hijacked four planes. "I'm not saying he wasn't born in Hawaii" argue sophisticated birthers of Obama, "all I'm saying is why won't he produce his birth certificate?"

Conspiracists draw upon the endorsement of "experts" to validate their theories, and yet a constant feature of modern conspiracy theories is the exaggeration of the status of their experts. The former U.K. junior environment minister Michael Meacher, a leading "disturbing question" figure on the edges of the 9/11 Truth movement, was never a member of the British cabinet. But in a radio interview on the syndicated "The Alex Jones Show" was referred to as the "former number three in the Blair government." David Ray Griffin, perhaps the most respected of all the 9/11 conspiracists, lays remarkable and repeated confidence in his judgement that his tatterdemalion handful of scientist-scholars somehow see a truth that armies of engineers, demolition experts, and aerodynamic specialists don't or won't. In one recent British conspiracy movement a much cited "lecturer and researcher" turned out to be an inquirer into alchemy, astrology and crop circles.

Today no conspiracist publication or Web site wants for the outward flourishes of scholarship. The footnotes are compendious, the sources are seemingly authoritative. It is only when you get in amongst them that you discover what the footnotes actually refer to. Many are examples of that new art form, the cross-citation, in which, say, the French conspiracy author Thierry Meyssan cites American conspiracy author Webster Tarpley; Tarpley cites David Ray Griffin; and David Ray Griffin cites Thierry Meyssan. Others will be references to contemporaneous news reports which, because they were necessarily provisional, now supposedly establish "anomalies" between them and the "official" (i.e. later) version of what happened. It is another irony, this ascription of a final, almost biblical authority to immediate and necessarily provisional mainstream news reports of an incident—providing, of course that they can be used to demonstrate the inconsistencies that the conspiracists are seeking. Reporters usually do the best they can in frightening and confused circumstances, but early explanations of major disasters will contain much that turns out to be mistaken. But mistakes do not exist in the world of conspiracy.

In his first book, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11," theologian Mr. Griffin questions the survival of evidence from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center, using an article in the Guardian as support: "As a story in the Guardian said, 'the idea that [this] passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged would [test] the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI's crackdown on terrorism.'" Readers would not know that this was not a report but merely the passing opinion of a columnist called Anne Karpf, who had no more knowledge about what might or might not have emerged from the Twin Towers than had any other columnist based in north London.

A final polish is given to the conspiracists' illusion of authority by the use of what is imagined to be Secret Service or technical jargon, as though the authors had been in recent communication with spies, generals or scientists. Web sites and books are adorned with interesting words and phrases include "psyops" (short for psychological operations), "false flag," and, more recently, "wet disposal," meaning assassination. Such use helps to establish an interior jargon for the conspiracy community.

No inconvenient fact or refutation discombobulates the believer—conspiracists are always winners. Their arguments have a determined flexibility whereby reverses can be accommodated within the theory itself, or simply discarded. So, embarrassing and obvious problems in the theory may be ascribed to deliberate disinformation originating with the imagined plotters designed to throw activists off the scent. One believer in the conspiracy to assassinate the Princess of Wales in 1997 claimed that it was the very proliferation of absurd theories concerning Diana that first convinced her that this was the MI6 squad at work seeking to cover up its real role in the killing.

The young makers of the viral Internet film on 9/11, "Loose Change," originally made much of the supposed impossibility of the phone calls made by passengers and crew from the hijacked planes to relatives and colleagues. During the film its writer and narrator, Dylan Avery, ridiculed the very idea. "The cell phones were fake," he scoffed, "No question about it." A few weeks ago I found myself on a San Francisco talk show with Mr. Avery, and pointed out the lunacy inherent in this claim. "You're just nitpicking!" he told me, adding that the really important evidence now concerned traces of a magical explosive "super-thermite" discovered from samples taken at Ground Zero and analyzed by an un-peer-reviewed Danish conspiracist chemist.

Mr. Avery could have opted for the ingenuity of the film's producer, Korey Rowe, who, when challenged in a 2006 Smith magazine interview about the glaring factual mistakes in the film, replied, "We know there are errors in the documentary, and we've actually left them in there so that people discredit us and do the research for themselves."

Finally, there is hardly a conspiracy theory, but its promoters are under some kind of threat from shadowy powers. Their phones are bugged, their offices are burgled but not robbed, they are followed, their hard drives fragment and their emails mysteriously disappear. But oddly, given their unique insights into the malefactions of powerful rulers, bent scientists and ruthless corporations, and their heroic role in bringing these into the public domain, they are never seriously harmed. A fact which, readers must surely agree that, though welcome, is very suspicious.

David Aaronovitch is a columnist for The Times of London. This essay was adapted from "Voodoo Histories: the Role of the Conspiracy Theory in Shaping Modern History," due out from Riverhead next February.

posted in Heated Debate - 5 replies

High Five!

2009-12-22T11:36:43Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abt8aAB-Dr0

I can understand the laughing, the strange looks, and certainly the participation, even when it seems forced or unenthusiastic...but some of the people looked downright upset and disturbed.

Does anyone feel similarly to these seemingly angry and uptight individuals? Could you explain this reaction to me? Because I just don't get it.

posted in Heated Debate - 59 replies

Oral Roberts Croaks

2009-12-21T16:18:33Z

http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/14491/god-finally-calls-91yearold-oral-roberts-home

posted in Heated Debate - 10 replies

debunking 911 conspiracy theory nuts

2009-12-21T15:27:25Z

http://www.debunking911.com/

posted in Heated Debate - 3 replies

who gives a shit?

2009-12-19T09:42:26Z

about you internet losers and your worthless opinions and half baked (no, fully baked) ideas.

Get a life.

posted in Heated Debate - 4 replies

Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave

2009-12-17T06:59:47Z

“Oh, What A Tangled Web We Weave
When We Practice To Deceive”

The Lloyde England story is one of the most interesting in all the 911 “inside job” lore. He was party to a deception crucial to “selling” the Pentagon attack story. Whether by aforethought or just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time Lloyde became entwined in and perhaps victimized by something much bigger than the “little guy” as he admits in what he thought was an off camera moment. Cornered by the intrepid and indefatigable researcher who created the 10 video segments below his story futilely changed to suit the unfolding evidence which shifted under his feet like quicksand. He was finally forced to entrench himself in a blatant contradiction that was obviously against all the photographic evidence of his whereabouts at a crucial moment.

If you like murder mysteries, then you might find this interesting:
As one Youtube commenter so succinctly wrote:

“If Lloyd is telling the truth (and all the photo and video evidence is fake), and he wasn't where the official story puts the downed light pole, then the official story is wrong.

If Lloyd is lying, and he was where the official story puts him, then the official story has a lying witness that contradicts all the other witnesses.

It's a win either way. Inside job. Case closed.”

1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSaMKFiZZAY

2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr27BqjrSO4&feature=PlayList&p=52B3DE41A72ECD1E&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=6

3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLBPMivYrCA&feature=PlayList&p=52B3DE41A72ECD1E&index=7&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL

4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0DRrjCFdHE&feature=PlayList&p=52B3DE41A72ECD1E&index=8&playnext=3&playnext_from=PL

5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zE4hBq8JE0

6
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLW6JvIeY90

7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=904kxEt7mrg

8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s17blKJR520

9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyKWQmgt5Jo

10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-94e-sEk_2M

posted in Heated Debate - 6 replies

Missile, Missile On the Wall

2009-12-17T05:25:00Z

Missile, Missile On the Wall

All three of the building strikes on 911 were preceded by missile strikes. This is most obvious in the exit hole at the Pentagon. Why would missiles be riding onboard the strike planes and why would they be fired at all three buildings just preceding impact? The answer is obvious if one works backwards from the Pentagon strike where the visual evidence was still intact days after the event. In the case of the Pentagon, a missile was required not just to penetrate the hardened Pentagon shell which had been specially and newly reinforced just months prior to the attack but also to ensure that the craft – whatever it was- did not get hung up or splattered too conspicuously “outside” the building where nosy photographers would be quickly assembled and where forensics teams might find large pieces of incontrovertibly incriminating evidence. There had to be assurances that the craft ended up mostly inside the building where it would meet the maximum shredding against interior structure and where airplane parts would be less conspicuous and could be dealt with clandestinely if necessary. This was not a failsafe plan but then nothing about an op so stupid and ambitious is going to run smoothly. The exit hole in the Pentagon was immediately a problem which was dealt with awkwardly by government personnel in the day or so after 911. The initial lies made up about the hole in the Pentagon are telling. One of the real keys to the 911 stage piece is the “cover your ass” maneuverings one sees immediately after the op when all the untidy and unforeseen developments had to be dealt with. This is typical of big, complicated operations.
Here we see a government employer prevaricating about the exit hole in the Pentagon. Since the exit hole is way too neat to have been made by the relatively fragile nose cone of a 757, the government employee scrambles to explain that it was a “punch out” hole made by rescuers:
From: http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/dam-inside.html

“This is a hole in -- there was a punch-out. They suspect that this was where a part of the aircraft came through this hole, although I didn’t see any evidence of the aircraft down there.”
Indeed, it just must have been where part of the aircraft came out, yet there was no evidence of any part of an aircraft that could have made the hole! Never mind that CatHerder has just told us about all the evidence of the aircraft that is just laying all around! Later in the same briefing when referring to the same hole Mitchell must have realised his mistake and stated:
“This pile here is all Pentagon metal. None of that is aircraft whatsoever. As you can see, they’ve punched a hole in here. This was punched by the rescue workers to clean it out”.
So which was it? Was the hole punched out by some part of the aircraft or by rescue workers? Was the pile of stuff aircraft debris, as CatHerder claims, or was it "all Pentagon metal" as Terry Mitchell says? Look again at the picture of the hole. We don’t need the contradictory statements of Mr. Mitchell to conclude that, due to the fact that the debris is on the outside of the building, the hole was punched out from the inside, yet how could it have been “punched out” by rescue workers when there are scorch marks at the top of the hole on the outside? Did the rescue workers punch out this hole when the fire was still raging inside? Hardly likely. Limiting air flow is part of fighting a fire. You don’t make holes to let in more air while you are trying to extinguish a fire.
Dare we suggest that the OASD chief was lying that day? That he changed his story because the “official” version of events did not include the idea that part of the aircraft made that hole, because it is inconceivable that any part of a 757 could have done so? If so, then a government official is on record as having lied about the events at the Pentagon, yet such does not dissuade CatHerder from trying to convince the public that the official government story about the strike on the Pentagon is correct.

And from: http://cassiopaea.netfirms.com/Above_Top_Secret_article.htm (An excellent overall Pentagon strike site)

“Probably embarassed by this smoking gun, some "debunkers" web sites try to explain that this hole has been made by rescue teams to free people who were trapped inside, or even by these unfortunate people themselves. The "punch out" inscription would thus mean "Punched to let people out". This is a sad hoax. There is no report of such a rescue work, though such an action would have been widely commented. The photo at left below, extracted from the "After Action Report" of Arlington County firemen shows the hole before somebody wrote "Punch out" on the wall... Note that this picture, with the debris scattered across the hole, shows clearly that it couldn't be an opening made by rescuers to free people trapped inside. Note also that there would have been no reason for such a hole to be dug with a perfectly oval shape, be it from inside or from outside the wall!”

In subsequent years there would be developed all sorts of unlikely theories to explain the hole, but it is the initial panicked reaction of people to the hole that tells the real story. That is true of the entire 911 op. The most compelling evidence of "inside job" is the effort by government agents to conceal, misdirect, and evade. It is "exhibit A."
___________________________________________________________________________________________

With the World Trade Center strikes it is the same modus operandi with same motive – pre-punch a hole into the building to ensure that as much of the airplane as possible winds up inside the building and not laying around outside the building where it might be subject to incriminating forensic examination.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbCcb6NV8Io
___________________________________________________________________________________________

All three missiles were most probably standard depleted uranium tipped. Depleted uranium warheads had superior penetrating power: There is evidence at the Pentagon indicating the trace signature of a depleted uranium warhead.
The following quotes are from:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/dam-inside.html

“I’ll tell you what I did when 9/11 happened. I called all the doctors with Radiation And Public Health Project, and I said, "Get out of town, and don’t come back until it has rained three times." One lived 12 miles downwind from the Pentagon. She went out on her balcony with her geiger counter. I said, "Get that geiger counter out of your purse." We had just done a press conference in San Francisco, and I knew she had it in her purse. Well, the radiation levels were 8-10 times higher than background. We called the EPA, HAZMAT, FBI, and said, "Get all those emergency response workers suited up. They need to be protected." Two days after 9/11, the EPA radiation expert for that region called back and said, "Yup, the Pentagon crash rubble was radioactive, and we believe it’s depleted uranium, but we’re not worried about that. It’s only harmful if it’s inhaled." He said, "We’re worried about the lead solder in the plane." Well, you know what’s in Tomahawk missiles? They have depleted uranium warheads. The radioactive crash rubble contaminated with DU is evidence of a DU warhead.”
“This text raises another question. Boeing admitted that the El Al B 747 that crashed near Amsterdam in Holland contained a DU counterweight. Boeing never gave the list of the plane models and series which contain a DU counterweight. The question could be asked of whether the B 757 of flight 77 contained a DU counterweight or not. If yes, the hypothesis of a warhead loaded inside this crashed plane could be replaced by a "natural" explanation of all the damage inside the building being due to this counterweight. Shortly after having put on line this question, I got an email with :
No Depleted Uranium in Hijacked Jets Crashed in New York and Washington Other than with its 747 jets, Boeing never used depleted uranium counterweights in its 767 and 757 jets - the types involved in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, according to Boeing speaker Heinrich Grossbongardt. (SPIEGEL ONLINE, Sep 14, 2001)
Thus, according to the company's spokesman, the only planes with a DU counterweight would be the B 747s...”

Had the debris pile of the World Trade Center not been so enormous and so dilutive there would probably be radiation evidence there too. Actually, there is but with a volume of debris that large there are too many other variables impinging on sampling for the radiation to show up as being definitively from a warhead. I used to think that the Pentagon strike was the most problematic of evidence because of the highly contradicting witness statements, but with the new revelations brought out in the “Citizens” video below all the visual evidence now begins to make moré sense and looks like the biggest smoking gun of 911.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o (Witness interviews contradicting the official Pentagon 911 story)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GHM5f9lVho (Lloyde England confession out take from above video)

Please pass these videos and web sites around to everybody you know and demand from your elected representatives a new 911 investigation.

posted in Heated Debate - 37 replies

Thank You Sir! May I Have Another Sir!

2009-12-16T22:22:05Z

Thank You Sir! May I Have Another Sir!

After awhile any serious researcher into the 911 op reaches a point at which the “anomalies,” the “extenuating circumstances,” the “just one of those things” things just pile up in one big glorious heap, and it hits you - the most obvious evidence of inside job is just staring you in the face really. The improbability of it all is right there in front of you – the three anomalous building collapses in one day, the complete breakdown of our national defense system, the 911 commission’s whitewashing of the whole affair. You just have to ask yourself how many of these broomsticks up the wazoo are we expected to take and keep replying like a good soldier, “Thank your sir! May I have another sir!”

________________________________________________________________________

From: cassiopaea.netfirms.com/Above_...cle.htm

“Of course, we have not even touched on that most bizarre aspect of the Pentagon strike - the alleged final approach of Flight 77. Think about this:

The hijackers are a few thousand feet up in the air, they spot the distinctive shape of the Pentagon and decide, "that's our target". What do they do next?

Well, logic would suggest that they take the easy and most effective option and nose-dive the plane towards the center of the Pentagon, thereby maximising the chances of actually hitting the building at such high speed and also causing the most damage.
But no, our intrepid "Arab terrorists" have a much more complicated plan:

They are going to fly the airliner at maximum speed just a few feet off the ground into the facade of the Pentagon; but not just any part of the facade. No indeed, these guys have a plan. Their specifically chosen "bull's eye" is the section of the facade of the Pentagon that had recently been reinforced and, due to the ongoing internal work, had a significantly reduced number of people in it. These nutty hijackers, consumed with rage and anger at America, its government, its military and its citizens, and determined to inflict as much carnage as possible, had somehow chosen the strongest part of the Pentagon which at the same time had the lowest concentration of people!
Now how's that for bad luck!

To carry out their bizarre plan, which appears designed to minimise death and destruction at the Pentagon rather than maximise it, and given that they realise that they are very poor pilots, failing to possess the skills to master the controls of a single-engined cessna, our intrepid "terrorists" decide that they will execute a difficult fast descent from 7,000 feet combined with a 270 degree turn.

This done, they are now at a few hundred feet and in "line of sight" of the Pentagon up ahead of them. The only problem is that they are now confronted with a veritable obstacle course of cars, roads, bridges, buildings, trees etc between them and their target. Not to worry - they have Allah on their side after all. By some miracle they manage to navigate the massive hulk of the 757 through down town Washington while flying at 500 mph and just a few dozen feet off the ground, getting lower all the time. They make just a little booboo and clip a couple of light poles on the way in, but despite this and the fact that their massive manual missile is just feet of the ground, they politely avoid messing up the Pentagon lawn and finally slam into their target at ground floor level.
Now that is one fantastical magical mystery of a story, worthy of inclusion in any children's fairy tale.”

________________________________________________________________________

Another realization that begins to dawn on the 911 researcher - these monsters never put much serious effort into debunking the "inside job" meme or covering the tracks of improbability because they knew an op of this size is going to get busted anyway, and a subtext of the op was going to be "Yeah, we did it. What you gonna do about it?" I think that is why the operation was so sloppy to begin with. The psychological terror of 911 is not simply one of people jumping from burning buildings and fireballs that look like Satan. For the thinking person, the terror is that elements at the highest level of government can manipulate the gullible masses and get away with it easily. This is far more demoralizing than any actual terrorist attack. It's the real hidden message of 911, and it has succeeded in creating a profound sense of defeat and apathy among thinking people. When Larry Silverstein uttered his infamous "Pull It" which is so blatantly linked to the subsequent collapse of WTC 7 the real message of that public admission of collusion was that the people behind this can do anything they damn well please and there is nothing "we" can do about it. When Rumsfeld gave his little talk at the Pentagon on the morning of 911 about the imminence of a terror attack he was signaling in no uncertain terms to anyone with half a brain that he was "in charge" now of events manipulative of the country's destiny and the control is so complete he doesn't even have to be coy about it. When Cheney used to stalk the halls of senate barking his infamous "fuck you's" to anyone who dared to stand in his way his message was the same, and it was loud and clear. "We are running the show. We are unholy bastards who will not be stopped. Get over it."
The final demoralization has been the Obama ruse and the complete sellout to the power brokers and the war machine. It gives a new and perverse meaning to “continuity of government.” In terms of breaking the will of the people this has been just as effective as the 911 hoax. It could even be called the "new 911." It is just as disastrous and just as terrifying.

posted in Heated Debate - 6 replies

A Critical View of Linear Thinking

2009-12-15T19:59:56Z

http://ericbrown.com/the-problems-with-linear-thinking.htm

posted in Heated Debate - 208 replies

Shrub's Missing Emails Found...22 Million of Them

2009-12-14T21:12:58Z

http://kdka.com/national/missing.emails.bush.2.1369157.html

"Two nonprofit groups say that computer technicians have found 22 million White House e-mails from the administration of President George W. Bush.

The two groups say the electronic messages were previously mislabeled and effectively lost."

posted in Heated Debate - 1 reply

In a dilapidated prison for the criminally insane...

2009-12-14T19:27:26Z

SOUNDS
almost like this
tribe
but not that this
close
i may have one left
cigar
maybe
2

posted in Heated Debate - 14 replies

911 Pentagon Hoax Revealed

2009-12-13T03:48:49Z

The Pentagon 911 hoax has finally been dissected and figured out. The Lloyde England confession at the end of this documentary is one of the most amazing moments in 911 research: Lloyde had been enlisted as part of the stage management of the deception with the downed light poles. His candor about this came at a moment when he thought the interviewer's camera had been turned off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5FhQc-LJ-o

The Lloyde England out take.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GHM5f9lVho

______________________________________________________________________________

Evidence of the use of a depleted uranium warhead at the Pentagon:

“I’ll tell you what I did when 9/11 happened. I called all the doctors with Radiation And Public Health Project, and I said, "Get out of town, and don’t come back until it has rained three times." One lived 12 miles downwind from the Pentagon. She went out on her balcony with her geiger counter. I said, "Get that geiger counter out of your purse." We had just done a press conference in San Francisco, and I knew she had it in her purse. Well, the radiation levels were 8-10 times higher than background. We called the EPA, HAZMAT, FBI, and said, "Get all those emergency response workers suited up. They need to be protected." Two days after 9/11, the EPA radiation expert for that region called back and said, "Yup, the Pentagon crash rubble was radioactive, and we believe it’s depleted uranium, but we’re not worried about that. It’s only harmful if it’s inhaled." He said, "We’re worried about the lead solder in the plane." Well, you know what’s in Tomahawk missiles? They have depleted uranium warheads. The radioactive crash rubble contaminated with DU is evidence of a DU warhead.”

From:
http://pagesperso-orange.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/dam-inside.html

posted in Heated Debate - 12 replies

"I Was A Caddy for the Elite"

2009-12-13T03:47:22Z

I was a Caddy for the Elite
December 7, 2009

by Toby Moreland

(for Henrymakow.com)

(Toby Moreland is the pen name for a 25-year-old living in Florida.)

Having tripped across the truth about 9/11, central banks, etc. in 2006, I set out to get a grasp on the elite class in order to understand their collective mindset.

For three summers, I caddied at one of the most exclusive private golf clubs in the Northeast and had the opportunity to spend four hours at a time with some of the most recognizable stars of the business world and their families. I was not out there asking direct questions like a journalist, just going where the conversations went. Here are some of the impressions these experiences left me with.

-Not many of them know. We have to realize that the internet is relatively brand new, and that most successful people with children and grandchildren and money to spend freely haven't looked into the possibility of hidden satanists at the top of the pyramid. Many internet writers associate firms such as Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers with evil itself, but in reality, even with respect to career upper level employees, most of them have no idea. It is highly compartmentalized.

- CEO's are PR reps, and that's all they are unless tapped to serve further in the public eye. I have spent many days with a former CEO of a major financial institution that failed, a man who took significant heat in the media for it, and I can tell you he had no control over it. He knows, but he also knows there's nothing he can do about it. He was a fall guy, and he worked his entire life to get into a position to be a fall guy, and get that golden parachute. The entire system depresses him, as it should, but he is out of it now and trying to enjoy retirement with his lovely wife and children. Who can blame him?

- A former CEO of a major television network, genuinely disillusioned by the system, was very candid with me at times expressing his discontent. After spending several consecutive days with him and his family on the golf course, we began discussing alternative media. When I asked him if four conglomerates own the entire mass media, he corrected me, saying it was only three. When I asked him what group was more influential, the U.S. Congress or the CFR, he smiled and said, "If you're asking me that question, you already know the answer." The impression he gave me was that even as CEO, especially as a CEO, your hands are tied. His entire family is composed of first-class individuals.

- One topic that is totally taboo is the Middle East. Never a peep.

- Prescription drug abuse is as common among the wives of the elite as it is on college campuses. While I saw no direct proof of this, I didn't need to. Money does not buy happiness, often it gives you enough rope to hang yourself with. Most of the super-rich have personal problems, they empathize with other people's problems, and they genuinely wish things were better for everyone. How can they help our cause?

CONCLUSION

The real 'power elite' that is enslaving mankind is minuscule in numbers and far removed from us. At this stage of the game, the system runs autonomously. It is not necessary for anyone to believe in the merits of the agenda, so long as no one can mount sufficient opposition against it. It is almost impossible for normal people to identify an agenda based on destruction, distraction and division - three ideas inherently in disagreement with our souls.

What most of us fear has already happened. It has been written in the minds of my generation. It's a tragedy, and we're all in it together. There is no one worth antagonizing. There is no one worth blaming. Our opponent is a collection of false ideologies. It can only be conquered with unwavering love and faith in the truth.

Sometimes I think that this movement, whatever it is, behaves like grown children who want to dig people out of their graves and beat the piss out of them.

From Satan to Rothschild to Kissinger, I'm thankful to have learned from all of their errors. If they hadn't gone to such great lengths in attempting to destroy God, the undeniable spiritual truth, there is no way I could see it so clearly.

posted in Heated Debate - 13 replies

Religion Should Be Like Your Genitals

2009-12-13T03:45:43Z

http://www.atheistrev.com/2009/12/religion-should-be-like-your-genitals.html

I am fortunate (but not blessed) to receive many excellent comments on this blog. One of my all-time favorites, left by Personal Failure quite awhile ago on a post about Christians "witnessing" to atheists, needs to be shared.

The post had elicited a comment from a Christian along the lines of how he could not help spreading the "good news" door-to-door. In fact, this made such an impression on me, that I asked whether others suffered from this compulsion (assuming it was in fact a compulsion).

It was in this context that Personal Failure offered this gem:

""I just can't keep it to myself"

you know, replace "jesus" with
"my genitals", and that's a crime.
and that's how we feel about it.
religion should be like your
genitals. it's fine to enjoy them,
it's fine to be proud of them, just
keep them to yourself unless
invited to share."

I love it! I'm glad that someone recently revived this thread so I could go back and read it again. Big thanks to Personal Failure for the smile!

posted in Heated Debate - 7 replies

Advocates for Cessation of Thought

2009-12-11T03:32:45Z

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Self-realisation/id/5611445

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

Notes For An Oral Enticement Of Jason

2009-12-11T03:10:07Z

(Just sayin)

Really though I wonder why you all even waste time responding to the likes of a Jason. His ideas have nor merit and he is not capable of doing anything other than insulting people and then he cannot even spell. Maybe you are arguing with him as some sort of sport so as to sharpen your debating skills.

In another time or place I can picture Jason being either a Nazi Youth banning and burning books or a follower of Chairman Mao doing the same during the purge called the cultural revolution in China. Thankfully Jason will never even come close to that sort of power. He will always remain an impotent jackass typing insults on the internet and never influencing anybody.

There are lots of subjects worty of debate, but sex is not one of them. Sex is simply way too much fun and way too pleasurable to even waste a second debating its merits. Looking at when this thread began I can can say I have had scores of orgasms between then and now. Some with a lover and others by my little old self. And you know what? Sometimes there is a cessation of thought. (during the best of orgasms) And this is a good thing. Who says we must think at all times? Thats right, Jason I condone and advocate that people should sometimes let themselves stop thinking. It is good for the soul. Someone else may have pointed out that Jason is a powerless little dweeb, but no harm in repeating the obvious.

One more thing. I think it is likely that Jason and Roger are one and the same. The utter stupidity shown by their posts is quite similar.

So I am off again to go get off again. Mindless pleasure is a Goddess given right. Pleasure for the sake of pleasure is a good thing.

posted in Heated Debate - 3 replies

Annie Machon

2009-12-10T18:46:55Z

http://www.nuoviso.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=446:annie-machon&catid=54:911&Itemid=66

Annie Machon born 1968 is a former British Security Service (MI5) intelligence officer who left the Service at the same time as David Shayler, her partner at the time, due to Shayler's assertions about criminality within the intelligence agencies. To date, Machon is a prominent member of 9/11 Truth Movement.
In 2005, Machon published her first book, Spies, Lies and Whistleblowers: MI5 and the David Shayler Affair in which she offers criticism of the Security Service and Secret Intelligence Service based on her observations of the two whilst in the employment of MI5.
In this Interview with NuoViso she talks about false flag operations, the London bombing and 9/11 itself

posted in Heated Debate - 4 replies

911 whistleblower turns out to be a tranny who thinks he's Jesus Christ

2009-12-10T18:43:49Z

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200089/Call-Delores-says-MI5-whistleblower-David-Shayler.html

posted in Heated Debate - 16 replies

The Obama Cave In

2009-12-10T18:40:37Z

http://www.infowars.net/articles/june2009/080609Obama_speech.htm

What is most striking about this is how little Brezinski seems to care about the inherent hypocrisy of what he is saying. It's not like he is being caught in separate prevarications made days apart. He is actually mouthing gross inconsistencies and contradictions from one breath to the other.
In a way, this is encouraging because it indicates that the more reckless of the globalists are just asleep at the wheel or nodding off. They are so stretched now that the wear and tear is beginnning to show.
I don't know how one could characterize Brezinki's performance as being other than a tragedy and a farce. The arrogance of so contradicting himself in the same breath presumes that no one is really paying attention anyway, and that one can say damn near anything and get away with it. That, I think, is the crucial miscalculation of these people. They assumed they could get away with the 911 stunt because not enough people would pay attention. Polls indicate otherwise.

posted in Heated Debate - 1 reply

incest

2009-12-09T05:04:50Z

Here, Solari brags that his son is bagging two girls at once, only the girl on the right is clearly his son's sister.

http://people.tribe.net/215f05fb-8432-4a1b-9996-1a36a2c4a67b/photos/76c6d4bf-8ca4-435e-bce7-6f20ce3c4583

Meanwhile, Solari claims to have a wife but she doesn't warrant a picture.

Incest is common in Arkansas.

posted in Heated Debate - 17 replies

sigh

2009-12-09T01:36:45Z

Can we get a new moderator, NOW?

With cookie-cutter alt trolls taking over threads, and creating their own if for no other reason than to push down the closest thing we have to actual conversation, I get closer and closer to just hitting the fan myself and taking time out of my day to moderate this bitch.

I'm not advocating censorship of viewpoints, opinions, or even mud-slinging, no matter how disagreeable, unpopular or offensive. I'm advocating weeding this fucking (already sorry excuse for a) garden of the crab grass and pests.

posted in Heated Debate - 78 replies

Here's An Idea

2009-12-09T00:41:25Z

Evacuate women and children from Afghanastan along with the men in the military and villagers/farmers that are not likely to be involved with terrorists and those from the terrorist camp that wish to renounce their affiliation. STOP the transaction of ALL CURRENCY. Allow nothing imported or exported. Then carpet bomb the whole damn country with bombs that explode high overhead and cover extremely large areas with a viral agent like Dengue Hemhorragic Fever or Ebola that kills very fast. Let it rest while the population dies. Allow a period for the virus to die out lacking a host. Let the bodies rot and decay in the heat. Then go in with NBC gear and cleanup the mess. Once it is safe, allow the people to return and the wealth they had documented will convert to a mandated new currency while the old currency is considered an attempt to restore terrorism and they get arrested for trying to use it.

BINGO! You start from scratch and move on. Those bitch ass motherfuckers in the next country are likely to experience the same fumigation. It is like spraying for roaches. You leave and set off the bombs....The roaches die, you clean up, and your home remains in tact...FUCK this stupid goddamned rat race on the wheel going nowhere! We poison mice, roaches, flies and other pests, so how are the terrorists any different?

posted in Heated Debate - 2 replies

totally gay or not?

2009-12-08T23:52:22Z

http://heateddebate.tribe.net/photos/aa496cb7-21fb-44d2-a519-7999952f69cc

posted in Heated Debate - 1 reply

Article: God is Pro Sex

2009-12-08T23:48:13Z

http://www.oppapers.com/essays/God-Pro-Nudist-Pro-Sex-Sexuality-Good/142926

".......God is very pro-many sex partners each with no shame and no guilt."

posted in Heated Debate - 6 replies

Hani Hanjour - The Red Baron of 911

2009-12-08T05:07:36Z

Below is a relatively recent document in 911 research that is fairly startling if not entirely unexpected. Hani Hanjour was the alleged pilot of the plane that hit the Pentagon at 400mph 15 feet off the ground in the final approach. He was also allegedly at the controls as the plane executed the infamous high G spiralling dive that some air traffic controllers watching the radar screen surmised was the acrobatics of a fighter plane. The flying skill it took to do all this never did make sense in light of Hanjour's demonstrated flying skill, but despite the testimony of several flight schools that Hanjour was a bumbler who had trouble flying even a small Cessna the 911 commission had finally been persuaded that Hanjour may have had the requisite skill to pull it off. It turns out that a crucial endorsement of Hani Hanjour's flying skill came from a flight instructor who had been an Israeli IDF paratrooper and who was never really vetted and who has disappeared from the radar screen (excuse the pun.)
Equally fascinating is the extent to which the commission suppressed or downplayed other evidence pointing to the possibility that Hanjour couldn't have flown the plane as it was flown. The commission so frequently engaged in this behavior in all facets of their investigation that one must regard some of them to be more "persons of interest" in the 911 drama. Their behavior is just as suspicious as that of the people supposedly being investigated and itself constitutes a "smoking gun" warranting a new investigation. As with so many things 911 it is not just the evidence that compels. Equally telling is the attempt to hide or suppress evidence.
Many in the 911 "twoofer" community are of the opinion that all of the 911 planes were remotely piloted.

“…it now appears that Shalev’s testimony was crucial. By telling the commission what it was predisposed to hear, Shalev gave the official investigation an excuse to ignore the preponderance of evidence, which pointed to the unthinkable.”

"The pattern played out again on August 16-17, 2001 when Hanjour attempted to rent a plane at Freeway Airport, in Bowie, Maryland, about twenty miles from Washington. Although Hanjour presented his FAA license, according to Newsday the Freeway airport manager insisted that instructors first accompany him on a test flight to evaluate his piloting skills. During three such flights over two days in a single-engine Cessna 172, instructors Sheri Baxter and Ben Conner observed what others had before them. Hanjour had trouble controlling and landing the aircraft. Afterward, Baxter interviewed Hanjour extensively about his flight training and experience, and also reviewed his flight log, which documented 600 hours of flight time. On this basis she and Conner declined to approve a current license rating until Hanjour returned for more training. On their recommendation, Freeway’s chief instructor Marcel Bernard refused to rent Hanjour a plane.[18] Notice, this was less than a month before 9/11."

"The note gives a name, Eddie Shalev, but no other information about him. Indeed, his identity remained a mystery until January 2009, when NARA released the 9/11 files.[25] Nonetheless, David Ray Griffin had already identified the key questions in his 2008 book The New Pearl Harbor Revisited. Wrote Griffin: “How could an instructor in Gaithersburg [i.e., Shalev] have had such a radically different view of Hanjour’s abilities from that of all of the other flight instructors who worked with him? Who was this instructor? How could this report be verified?”[26]"

"So, who is Eddie Shalev? His identity remained unknown for more than seven years, but was finally revealed in one of the files released in January 2009 by the National Archives. The document, labeled a “Memorandum for the Record,” is a summary of the April 2004 interview with Eddie Shalev conducted by commission staffer Quinn John Tamm.[32] The document confirms that Shalev went on record: “Mr Shalev stated that based on his observations Hanjour was a ‘good’ pilot.” It is noteworthy that Tamm also spoke with Freeway instructors Sheri Baxter and Ben Conner, as revealed by yet another recently-released document.[33] Although I was unable to reach Tamm or Baxter for comment, I did talk with Conner, who confirmed the conversation.[34] Conner says he fully expected to testify before the commission. Perhaps not surprisingly, the call never came."

From:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14290

posted in Heated Debate - 22 replies

Free Thought

2009-12-07T21:51:15Z

Another way to think outside of the box. www.centerforinquiry.net/blogs/

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

WTC7 Au Go Go

2009-12-07T15:39:47Z

Here are links to some of the most persuasive video footage and writing demonstrating that the WTC 7 collapse was so anomalous as to warrant a new investigation. The WTC7 collapse is itself just a small part of the overall 911 “coincidence” string that has now swelled so hugely and includes so many coincidences and anomalies that I am sure any new investigation will be provided with a mountain of new data and witnesses.

You can copy and paste these into a saved word document and then peruse them when you have the leisure and inclination to do so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9BofDUXv0 (Overview)

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/last_building_standing.pdf (“Was WTC 7 A Dud?” This is an update of the original “dud” article. A theory of why things happened -and also didn’t happen - with WTC7. A crucial theory)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xca6o38ZNY&feature=related (Office of Emergency Management employee Barry Jennings interview and subsequent death threats. He said that explosions took out most of the WTC 7 lobby before the two big towers fell and also as they fell. This jives with idea that WTC 7 had been “softened up” for collapse which was to have occurred under cover of the big tower collapses, but that the collapse failed thus leaving the perps with the biggest white elephant of 911.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STbD9XMCOho (First responder Kevin McPadden’s account of the WTC7 demolition countdown sequence)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uso9sCOakEQ (First responder Bartmer’s report of explosions at WTC 7.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwjmqkjwnvQ (Closer footage of the infamous “Get back – the building is about to explode”)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58h0LjdMry0 (The Italian mini doc called “Seven Is Exploding”)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=877gr6xtQIc (Demolition expert Danny Jowenko on the WTC 7 collapse)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw&feature=related (The most well known video of 911 sound and video secondary bomb evidence for the entire Trade Center Complex. – 13.5 million hits on Youtube!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxycV4fNPnQ (Disposal and destruction of forensic evidence -steel beams etc.- in violation of law. Overseen by Giuliani)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100&feature=related (The infamous “Pull It” uttered by WTC complex owner Larry Silverstein.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtPC0W4HII8&feature=fvw (Silverstein refusing to answer direct questions concerning “Pull It” and the “chain of command.”)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH6JVXk7jpQ (Explosions throughout the day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnErk2r6kmU&feature=PlayList&p=FC2C98C8C8AEA63C&index=1&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL (Professor Steven Jone’s visual analysis of WTC 7 collapse)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWgSaBT9hNU (Firefighter and civilian reports of explosions)

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:pyMgNr2MHEsJ:www.911speakout.org/Freefall.pdf+building+seven+explosions&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AFQjCNF0QbIvL3HKIz-YVNeSjNU0ONtRAQ (Freefall physics and WTC 7)

http://www.911speakout.org/ (Very good general site)

http://911exposed.org/ (the most intelligent 911 site)

posted in Heated Debate - 45 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:32:43Z

cheetos are food for bums like you

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:32:03Z

they're orange, so is Solar's tongue and roger's dick

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

more cheetos

2009-12-07T07:31:22Z

for you

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:30:50Z

not just for athiests, Dan likes them too

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:30:17Z

Cheetos brought down the WTC

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

it's all abou the cheetos

2009-12-07T07:29:50Z

save some cheetos for later

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:29:15Z

involved in 911, the truth be known

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

The Cheetos tribe

2009-12-07T07:28:29Z

this is it.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:28:00Z

ah, cheetos. For you!

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

it's cheetos time

2009-12-07T07:27:28Z

for you losers

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

get you some cheetos

2009-12-07T07:26:52Z

fat bot eat 'em up, them cheetos

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos breath

2009-12-07T07:26:17Z

similar to penis breath

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

the cheetos tribe

2009-12-07T07:25:43Z

hello, you're all losers

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheeto boy

2009-12-07T07:25:04Z

hands are all orange, so is his dick

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:24:28Z

oh, the places you'll go and the things you'll do.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

you and your cheetos

2009-12-07T07:24:15Z

oh, the places you'll go and the things you'll do.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos for you

2009-12-07T07:23:33Z

I can say with certainty that each of you is a dull witted mentally defective internet loser.

posted in Heated Debate - 1 reply

you and a cheeto

2009-12-07T07:23:09Z

oh, the places you'll go and the things you'll do.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

you and a cheeto

2009-12-07T07:22:43Z

oh, the places you'll go and the things you'll do.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

you and a cheeto

2009-12-07T07:22:03Z

oh, the places you'll go and the things you'll do.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

you love those cheetos

2009-12-07T07:20:57Z

I can say with certainty that each of you is a dull witted mentally defective internet loser.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:20:30Z

I can say with certainty that each of you is a dull witted mentally defective internet loser.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:20:04Z

you know you want it

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

cheetos

2009-12-07T07:19:40Z

I can say with certainty that each of you is a dull witted mentally defective internet loser.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

with certainty

2009-12-07T07:18:28Z

I can say with certainty that each of you is a dull witted mentally defective internet loser.

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

Past Lives

2009-12-07T01:14:25Z

I was King Leonidas. No doubt in my mind, whatsoever. Just came to the full realization today. I am in the most destructive mood you could possibly imagine. I wanted to go to Persia and kill every single Persian for that unwarranted invasion. They really stepped over the line with that one. We meant to rule that pass for months on end. Of course it would not have come to that. If not for that fuck! (I've forgiven him multiple times over!) But all the same, I was not happy about being ratted out like that. Been looking at those maps. I wish they had better ones. The lake was different then. We moved back. Just as I thought, they delayed. Just started looking at it today. Yes I had the feeling. But certainty came today. I killed well over a thousand Persians, and within that were people of Mongolian descent, and all kinds of other foreigners, mercenaries. That was the most glorious battle I've ever experienced. We crushed skulls of people simply because we could not avoid it, waling over them. And also because we were pissed off. We cut off the heads of the dead Persians and impaled them on spears and tossed them back. Rendall was there. The Passenger was there. Who else? Wildapache, Mem. A friend or two I have near me. Others. I want to play that over in Hell, and win it this time. You want Hell to go on? I will make it about dominating the world, until the Greek Empire, prior to Alexander, sweeps the lot of you. Then it will be over. Marvin was there. I've only sourced a few at this point. Well over nine thousand on our side. I've been busy for so many lives. I've destroyed Hell over and over. Hell is a shell of a place. People receded into the ooze. Tried to kick you motherfuckers out, tried to teach you a lesson. Never worked. Simply too many stupid people who prefer to live that way. It will end. This life of mine has been forseen. No doubt of it, at all.

Gonna kill a shit load of people. All the ones that are miswrote.

Three days of the most hellacious destruction you've ever seen. Over 40,000 dead on their side. Would have been far, far more. We would have chased them for so long. I was that pissed, many of us were. They say that it was millions, it wasn't that. Near, or somewhat over 300,000 Persians, including mercenaries.

We moved back during the first day of battle, which (as they say) appears to have been after 4 or 5 days of delay. We lost a lot of people that first day. So we moved back from the lake. They were moving forces through the lake. It wasn't that deep, at the edges. That pass goes back quite a bit. We would have held off the Persians for *so long*! They would have retreated. And we would not just have harried them, we would have cut them to pieces. The anger would have passed long before we got to Persia. Though for a while there, I wanted to destroy that whole country. Many of us did. No doubt about it. Spartans are impossibly fierce.

posted in Heated Debate - 128 replies

Pornography

2009-12-07T01:06:14Z

This may be even more of an uphill battle than you assumed, Jason...

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/979435/mens-porn-study-fails-to-find-smut-virgins

A study hoping to compare men who watch porn with those who haven't encountered it has been derailed — because researchers couldn't find any men who hadn't indulged in X-rated material.

Scientists at the University of Montreal had to change the focus of their project after failing to find a single male aged in his 20s who hadn't been exposed to adult videos and images.

"We started our research seeking men in their 20s who had never consumed pornography," the Telegraph reported Professor Simon Louis Lajeunesse as saying.

"[But] we couldn't find any."

Surprised researchers decided to instead explore the men's porn watching habits, finding the average age of first exposure was about 10 years old.

And while being in a relationship may not to completely remove porn from a man's life, it does appear to cut their habit in half.

Single men watched adult content about three times a week for an average of 40 minutes, while those with partners watched it 1.7 times a week in about 20-minute blocks, the study said.

The abundance of pornography available on the internet has meant online content accounts for about 90 percent of porn viewed by men, while video stores about 10 percent.

posted in Heated Debate - 10 replies

Jason, This Song's For You

2009-12-05T07:04:05Z

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-5d5IfdYK4

Anybody else tired?Ha!Ha! I could be wrong....

posted in Heated Debate - 8 replies

The Secret and Sordid History of Robert Gates

2009-12-04T21:11:21Z

Every time Gates opens his mouth about Afghanistan, which is the world's bread basket for opium poppies, I can't help but think back to the little piece Al Martin did on this spook in "06. Bo

"The Secret and Sordid History of Robert Gates

(11-13-06) Former CIA chief Robert Gates has been nominated to replace Donald Rumsfeld as the Secretary of the Department of Defense in another commingling of the military and so-called intelligence functions, just as former NSA chief General Michael Hayden has become the head of the CIA. The Iran Contra role of Bobby Gates has been discussed in my book The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider. So what are the implications of the Bush Regime mixing military and intelligence functions in this new appointment? Once again as in the 1980s the intelligence community is riding roughshod over the decisions of military commanders. Political expediency once again dominates military decision making.

During the Iran Contra environment, Bobby Gates had a dual function. People forget that. Frank Carlucci left as National Security Advisor in 1985 because his Iran Contra involvement, particularly in narcotics trafficking, started to get too much in the media. It was Bobby Gates that came in as interim National Security Advisor. Gates then temporarily became DCI upon the death of Bill Casey. And so he was both a National Security Advisor and DCI under the Reagan Bush Regime.

It should also be remembered that Bobby had gotten exposed during Senator John Kerry’s Iran Contra Committee hearings, and narrowly avoided being indicted for obstruction of justice and conspiracy. He was exposed for his involvement in Iran Contra, particularly his involvement in facilitating Agency narcotic trafficking through South America as part of Oliver North’s Guns for Drugs Operation, as it later became known.

After then-Vice President George Bush Sr, backed away from the Vice Presidential Task Force on Drugs, that operation was turned over to Gates.

The dual role was that Gates not only acted to facilitate CIA narcotics trafficking, since he was above CIA Deputy Director Clair George, who was in charge of all CIA narcotics activity, but, because he came in later than everyone else did, after Casey died, so his most important function was suppression and the destruction of evidence, colluding with David Margolis, then Chief of Domestic Prosecutions of the Department of Justice, and setting up people who knew too much to be prosecuted on trumped-up charges.

Gates was accused by Hawaii Senator Daniel Inouye of having direct involvement in the mysterious disappearances and untimely deaths of a variety of Iran Contra sensitive individuals who did not show up at the hearings because of their untimely deaths, all supposedly due to natural causes or accidents or suicides. These individuals either could not be subpoenaed by the Kerry Committee hearings or died in the 11th hour before giving testimony.

The most famous thing about Gates was the so-called 1985 videotape incident at the Imperial Building, which is a luxury apartment building in downtown Miami, in the lobby, where they had the videotape that showed him and notorious Colombian drug kingpin Carlos Lehder together.

Carlos Lehder owned a penthouse apartment in the building, and he and Gates met in the lobby. Gates apparently didn’t realize they had a discreet videotaping security system in the lobby. The security guard, a Cuban immigrant, apparently realized who Gates was, and scoffed the tape, then tried to sell it to the Miami Herald. Ultimately I don’t know what happened to it but I know the tape was purchased by the infamous and sinister XYZ Productions, another CIA cutout, for a purported $500,000.

Before the money was actually paid into an offshore account, the security guard, a guy named Sanchez was found dead in a canal behind his home, which was deemed a swimming accident. Those were the days when it was common to be found dead in your canal since a lot of houses are built on manmade canals in Miami.

Bobby Gates was also involved with the notorious Carlos Cardoen. Gates attempted to suborn the Democratically controlled Kerry Committee that was investigating Swissco Management, which was Cardoen’s front company in Florida.

Cardoen was the Chilean money launderer and weapons dealer who was not only tied to Oliver North, but was a partner with both George Bush Sr. and Amaro Pinto Ramos, the Brazilian billionaire, who were all in the same land lease scams in Brazil. They also got involved in that big UNC, United Nuclear Corporation scam in Brazil.

So what does this means that Gates has being nominated to be the Secretary of Defense? First of all it probably came from Bush Sr. because Junior doesn’t know Bobby Gates that well. More recently Bobby Gates and Jim Baker were involved in the Iraq Study Group which had a report that recommended that Rumsfeld be removed. This shows that Bush Sr. is running the show.

However, the bigger implication about all this is that now the regime’s got a clear 2 years without any political considerations it has to worry about.

So why are they putting together now all of the old Iran Contra cover-up team, people that specialize in the commission and operation of illegal, covert operations of state and the subsequent cover-up thereunto?

What new sinister, illegal, surreptitious, illicit and covert activity is the regime going to get itself up to wherein it feels it’s necessary to bring back the old crowd?

There was Porter Goss, who is now the former DCI. There’s John Negroponte, who’s the national intelligence director or DNI. There’s Elliott Abrams, security advisor to the State Department. Dicky Armitage, former Undersecretary of State, but now Senior Advisor to the State Department’s Foreign Narcotics Control Office, which he ran, both recently and during the Iran Contra era.

So some of these who were the Iran Contra cover up team are in private positions and some of them are still in the halls of power. You could call this a Public-Private Partnership of the Sinister Cabal. It doesn’t matter if you’re private or federal. You’re still a Bush Cabalist, public or private!

What’s going to happen with Gates? Is he going to get accepted? The new Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi promised quick confirmation hearings to show Democratic willingness to bipartisan cooperation.

The real agenda is that the Democrats have absolutely no vested interest in bringing back its Iran Contra past, Senator Harry Reid’s proclamations to the contrary notwithstanding. The only thing it would do is illustrate the failures of the Kerry Committee hearing and the six subsequent Democratically chaired congressional investigative committee investigations of Iran Contra, etc.

Conclusion? Bobby Gates’s notorious Iran Contra past will not be revisited because nobody has a vested political interest in doing it.

* AL MARTIN is an independent economic-political analyst with 25 years of experience as a trader on NYMEX, CME, CBOT and CFTC. As a former contributor to the Presidential Council of Economic Advisors, Al Martin is considered to be a source of independent analysis for financially sophisticated and market savvy investors.

After working as a broker on Wall Street, Al Martin was involved in the so-called "Iran Contra" Affair as a fundraiser for the Bush Cabal from the covert side of government aka the US Shadow Government.

His memoir, "The Conspirators: Secrets of an Iran Contra Insider," (http://www.almartinraw.com) provides an unprecedented look at the frauds of the Bush Cabal during the Iran Contra era. His weekly column, "Behind the Scenes in the Beltway," is published weekly on Al Martin Raw.com, which also publishes a bimonthly newsletter called "Whistleblower Gazette."

Al Martin's new website "Insider Intelligence" (http://www.insiderintelligence.com) will provide a long term macro-view of world markets and how they are affected by backroom realpolitik."

posted in Heated Debate - 11 replies

911 premise - debate

2009-12-04T15:02:40Z

The whole premise of the 911 inside job conspiracy theory is that: (1) either Al-Queda was not capable of pulling of this attack and instead that was just a front for our own government to wage a war against its own people, or (2) Al-Queda and the US government worked together to pull it off.

The facts are that Al-Queda was certainly capable of such an attack, and had been making progressively bigger and bolder attacks for a decade. There is no evidence that these attacks were part of any inside job conspiracy. Wing nuts who dismiss Al Queda tend not to know anything about the subject of Radical Islam and ignore a long history of effective and deadly terrorism by Islamic and Arab terrorirsts.

The idea that the job was carried out with help from the US also defies any reason or logic. It's a wingnut view, not supported by any evidence. What would be the motive or gain from the government turning against its own cities and the Pentegon?

The 911 wingnuts largely avoid these issues and instead focus on minor "inconsistencies" in the 911 Report and upon their own phony forensics.

To date, there has been no legally admissible evidence to support any of the wingnut theories.

The wingnuts have the burden of proof, to prove their entire case. They haven't proven anything, much less their entire case.

Don't respond with a flood of copy and paste junk. I wrote this, these are my own words and thoughts, now let's see if you can debate me in your own words.

posted in Heated Debate - 20 replies

Pentagon 9/11: Olson's Phone Calls Didn't Happen

2009-12-04T05:07:03Z

Pentagon 9/11: Olson's Phone Calls Didn't Happentopic posted Today, 1:31 AM by Solari delete entire topic

Late in the day on 9/11, CNN put out a story that began: “Barbara Olson, a conservative commentator and attorney, alerted her husband, Solicitor General Ted Olson, that the plane she was on was being hijacked Tuesday morning, Ted Olson told CNN.” According to this story, Olson reported that his wife had “called him twice on a cell phone from American Airlines Flight 77,” saying that “all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers. The only weapons she mentioned were knives and cardboard cutters.”2

Ted Olson’s report was very important. It provided the only evidence that American 77, which was said to have struck the Pentagon, had still been aloft after it had disappeared from FAA radar around 9:00 AM (there had been reports, after this disappearance, that an airliner had crashed on the Ohio-Kentucky border). Also, Barbara Olson had been a very well-known commentator on CNN. The report that she died in a plane that had been hijacked by Arab Muslims was an important factor in getting the nation’s support for the Bush administration’s “war on terror.” Ted Olson’s report was important in still another way, being the sole source of the widely accepted idea that the hijackers had box cutters.3

However, although Ted Olson’s report of phone calls from his wife has been a central pillar of the official account of 9/11, this report has been completely undermined.

Olson’s Self-Contradictions

Olson began this process of undermining by means of self-contradictions. He first told CNN, as we have seen, that his wife had “called him twice on a cell phone.” But he contradicted this claim on September 14, telling Hannity and Colmes that she had reached him by calling the Department of Justice collect. Therefore, she must have been using the “airplane phone,” he surmised, because “she somehow didn’t have access to her credit cards.”4 However, this version of Olson’s story, besides contradicting his first version, was even self-contradictory, because a credit card is needed to activate a passenger-seat phone.

Later that same day, moreover, Olson told Larry King Live that the second call from his wife suddenly went dead because “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well.”5 After that return to his first version, he finally settled on the second version, saying that his wife had called collect and hence must have used “the phone in the passengers’ seats” because she did not have her purse.6

By finally settling on this story, Olson avoided a technological pitfall. Given the cell phone system employed in 2001, high-altitude cell phone calls from airliners were impossible, or at least virtually so (Olson’s statement that “the signals from cell phones coming from airplanes don’t work that well” was a considerable understatement). The technology to enable cell phone calls from high-altitude airline flights was not created until 2004.7

However, Olson’s second story, besides being self-contradictory, was contradicted by American Airlines.

American Airlines Contradicts Olson’s Second Version

A 9/11 researcher, knowing that AA Flight 77 was a Boeing 757, noticed that AA’s website indicated that its 757s do not have passenger-seat phones. After he wrote to ask if that had been the case on September 11, 2001, an AA customer service representative replied: “That is correct; we do not have phones on our Boeing 757. The passengers on flight 77 used their own personal cellular phones to make out calls during the terrorist attack.”8

In response to this revelation, defenders of the official story might reply that Ted Olson was evidently right the first time: she had used her cell phone. However, besides the fact that this scenario is rendered unlikely by the cell phone technology employed in 2001, it has also been contradicted by the FBI.

Olson’s Story Contradicted by the FBI

The most serious official contradiction of Ted Olson’s story came in 2006 at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker. The evidence presented to this trial by the FBI included a report on phone calls from all four 9/11 flights. In its report on American Flight 77, the FBI report attributed only one call to Barbara Olson and it was an “unconnected call,” which (of course) lasted “0 seconds.”9 According to the FBI, therefore, Ted Olson did not receive a single call from his wife using either a cell phone or an onboard phone.

Back on 9/11, the FBI itself had interviewed Olson. A report of that interview indicates that Olson told the FBI agents that his wife had called him twice from Flight 77.10 And yet the FBI’s report on calls from Flight 77, presented in 2006, indicated that no such calls occurred.

This was an amazing development: The FBI is part of the Department of Justice, and yet its report undermined the well-publicized claim of the DOJ’s former solicitor general that he had received two calls from his wife on 9/11.

Olson’s Story Also Rejected by Pentagon Historians

Ted Olson’s story has also been quietly rejected by the historians who wrote Pentagon 9/11, a treatment of the Pentagon attack put out by the Department of Defense.11

According to Olson, his wife had said that “all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers.”12 This is an inherently implausible scenario. We are supposed to believe that 60-some people, including the two pilots, were held at bay by three or four men (one or two of the hijackers would have been in the cockpit) with knives and boxcutters. This scenario becomes even more absurd when we realize that the alleged hijackers were all small, unathletic men (the 9/11 Commission pointed out that even “[t]he so-called muscle hijackers actually were not physically imposing, as the majority of them were between 5’5” and 5’7” in height and slender in build”13), and that the pilot, Charles “Chic” Burlingame, was a weightlifter and a boxer, who was described as “really tough” by one of his erstwhile opponents.14 Also, the idea that Burlingame would have turned over the plane to hijackers was rejected by his brother, who said: “I don't know what happened in that cockpit, but I'm sure that they would have had to incapacitate him or kill him because he would have done anything to prevent the kind of tragedy that befell that airplane.”15

The Pentagon historians, in any case, did not accept the Olson story, according to which Burlingame and his co-pilot did give up their plane and were in the back with the passengers and other crew members. They instead wrote that “the attackers either incapacitated or murdered the two pilots.”16

Conclusion

This rejection of Ted Olson’s story by American Airlines, the Pentagon, and especially the FBI is a development of utmost importance. Without the alleged calls from Barbara Olson, there is no evidence that Flight 77 returned to Washington. Also, if Ted Olson’s claim was false, then there are only two possibilities: Either he lied or he was duped by someone using voice-morphing technology to pretend to be his wife.17 In either case, the official story about the calls from Barbara Olson was based on deception. And if that part of the official account of 9/11 was based on deception, should we not suspect that other parts were as well?

The fact that Ted Olson’s report has been contradicted by other defenders of the official story about 9/11 provides grounds for demanding a new investigation of 9/11. This internal contradiction is, moreover, only one of 25 such contradictions discussed in my most recent book, 9/11 Contradictions: An Open Letter to Congress and the Press.

posted in Heated Debate - 13 replies

Moderator vote

2009-12-04T03:59:20Z

I did not call for a vote on a new moderator, others did, but clearly I won the vote.

Does anyone want to phone this one in?

posted in Heated Debate - 3 replies

Afghanistan

2009-12-03T21:33:57Z

Another Vietnam?

Or is Afghanistan another .... Afghanistan?

Does anyone realistically think we can accomplish anything constructive there?

Isn't this troop surge just an effort to save face and make us look tough with one last effort before we bug out with nothing to show for it?

posted in Heated Debate - 6 replies

9/11: Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible

2009-12-03T17:45:06Z

Personally, I don't think that the "flight recorder" for the plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon was from whatever actually hit the Pentagon, but let's pretend for a moment that it is. As if we don't already have enough bizarreness surrounding the event which somehow wasn't recorded clearly on any of the cameras around the Pentagon, we now have evidence from the flight recorder that the cockpit doors were never opened during the flight thus contradicting any hijacking scenario. Ths makes sense if the plane was never flown by Hanjour who couldn't fly a paper airplane anyway. It makes more sense if the plane was remotely hijacked electronically and guided to its destination. The maneuvering of the craft in the last minutes was not something a bumbler like Hanjour could ever have accomplished.

The Pilots for 911 Truth site has a ton of compelling evidence that something was very rotten about the aeronautical part of 911.

9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE
FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.

On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines Flight 77 departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]

Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is a growing organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for the Pentagon Attack, the events in Shanksville, PA and the World Trade Center attack. The data does not support the government story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, there is a growing mountain of conflicting information and data in which government agencies and officials along with Mainstream Media refuse to acknowledge. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html for full member list.

pilotsfor911truth.org/join to join.

[1] Hijacker Timeline - pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php

[2] Common Strategy Prior to 9/11/2001 - pilotsfor911truth.org/pentagon.html

[3] Right click and save target as here to download csv file with "FLT DECK DOOR" parameter.

posted in Heated Debate - 4 replies

desrimmation

2009-12-03T16:26:17Z

you go in 2 a store the people are all whites.

homeboys try to get a job they no hirn.

posted in Heated Debate - 5 replies

I believe in hate

2009-12-03T06:12:45Z

you believe in hate.

http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=781716275

posted in Heated Debate - 21 replies

Vodka Pills

2009-12-03T06:02:41Z

http://gear.ign.com/articles/105/1050739p1.html

Behold the world's tax dollars at work. A Russian professor at the Saint Petersburg Technological University has developed a process that allows him to take almost any kind of alcohol, turn it into a powder, and then pack it into a pill for easy transport. Yeah, someone actually took the time and the research money to figure this out. Why bring a bottle of wine to your next dinner party when you can just drop a few tablets of whisky on the kitchen table and call it a night?

"We have developed a technology that allowed us to turn any liquid solution into powder," the scientist was quoted as saying by a web portal.

The mastermind behind the technique is Evgeny Moskalev, who was first able to produce vodka into a "dry" form, supposedly to make it easier for consumer to calculate an exact dosage. After the transformation, the "dry" vodka (or whiskey, or beer) can fit easily into bag or even your pocket.

An act of brilliance or sheer stupidity? We'd say its a perfectly blended cocktail of the two.

posted in Heated Debate - 9 replies

debate

2009-12-03T00:10:42Z

Do you folks really want this to be a debate tribe, or shall it be a trolling tribe as some of you complained?

No moderator is required for the later, but the former certainly requires a moderator. Beyond that, it requires a moderator who knows the rules of debate and more importantly, could apply those rules correctly.

The premise of this tribe, a debate forum in which a person can take any position and debate it with complete intellectual freedom, is a good one. But of course, with tribe being what it is, many take this to mean there are no rules, which simply can't be in a debate. A debate is not a free for all shouting and insulting match.

Why me? Well, I know it from both sides. In real life, my days involve real debate in a real debate forum. By night, I've lived the trolling life here on tribe. If anyone knows the difference between the two, it is me.

The challenge is to keep the tribe fun and to keep personal vendettas and agendas out of the job of moderating. Virtually no moderator of a major "debate" tribe is able to do that. I am the single candidate up to the task.

posted in Heated Debate - 20 replies

fat people

2009-12-02T18:17:42Z

die

http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=8114600

posted in Heated Debate - 14 replies

die

2009-12-01T22:43:18Z

if all of you would die

you will die

die

now

posted in Heated Debate - 28 replies

This Is Bullshit.

2009-12-01T22:35:14Z

Plain and fancy.

Anybody can say what they want, but I don't have to pay attention to drivel.
Bye bye.
Heated debate? Yeah right.

posted in Heated Debate - 6 replies

obesity and race

2009-11-30T20:44:40Z

eat

fuck

die

http://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=927694763

posted in Heated Debate - 3 replies

nigger lover

2009-11-30T20:41:31Z

America is a country that uses the phrase "nigger lover."

posted in Heated Debate - 3 replies

Let's play a game

2009-11-29T19:34:50Z

Today, Carrie Smuckler, Au Pair coordinator for the Ridgefield, CT tri-state area, attended the Berlin summit. Connect this to Kevin Bacon in 6 degrees or less for the win. First person to do it earns the right to cure the world of all ills with their own particular brand of insane rambling on Tribe. Good luck.

posted in Heated Debate - 5 replies

قتل

2009-11-29T18:24:19Z

قتل

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

Buffett: Bernanke deserves an A...for ASSHOLE

2009-11-28T23:25:40Z

direct from your buddies at: CNNews...
gee, the feds have not only warned the UNITED STATES
BUT, also the
world

posted in Heated Debate - 0 replies

The Normalization of Oral Sex

2009-11-28T19:55:31Z

http://www.slate.com/id/2192260/

"The raw numbers indicate that 50 percent of teenagers aged 15 to 19 have had vaginal sex. Fifty-five percent have had heterosexual oral sex. Are kids substituting oral for vaginal? Nope. Among technical virgins—teens who have never had vaginal sex—23 percent have had oral sex. That number sounds high until you notice that among nonvirgins, the oral-sex figure is 87 percent. If your teenager has had "basic" sex without somebody's mouth being involved, congratulations. You're probably the only such household on your block."

********

"Look at the data for older adults, and you'll see similar patterns. At ages 20 to 24, the percentage who admit to oral sex trails the percentage who admit to vaginal sex by around five points. (A study of Georgia college students, published last year, produced similar numbers: 96 percent of those who had lost their vaginal virginity had also lost their oral virginity.) At ages 25 to 44, the gap is around eight points. If anything, these numbers understate the prevalence of oral sex, since they're based on self-reporting. The discomfort most of us feel around this topic surely affects some survey responses, even with guaranteed anonymity.

The near-disappearance of lifetime oral virginity makes sodomy laws fairly ridiculous. The percentage of Americans aged 25 to 44 who deny ever having had oral sex now barely exceeds the percentage who admit to same-sex activity. By empirical standards, if gay sex is deviant, so is chastity of the mouth. Indeed, there's some evidence that what's vanishing isn't oral abstinence—which perhaps never really existed—but stigma. That's the implication of a decadelong Australian college study, published three years ago, which showed a significant increase in female, but not male, admission of oral activity.

So cheer up, Mom and Dad. You don't have to be embarrassed any more about discussing the facts of life with your child. She'll be happy to explain them to you."

posted in Heated Debate - 165 replies

Holy Crap

2009-11-27T19:59:36Z

I swear I just found out Jason plays GTA in his spare time...

http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=ticket_to_hell/

posted in Heated Debate - 30 replies

Happy Turkey Day!

2009-11-27T17:41:07Z

And now, a video about Turkey:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/245021/turkey_an_example_of_religious_tolerance/

posted in Heated Debate - 11 replies

Another Debunking of 9/11 Conspiracies

2009-11-26T04:37:41Z

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0427-29.htm

posted in Heated Debate - 22 replies

POLITICS and INTELLIGENT DEBATE don't have this Ming-PRC information, November 25, 2009

2009-11-26T04:34:57Z

Hello, everyone! Got a sinky pinky? I have!

Finger THIS: the US has invaded China THREE TIMES, known to me, last emperor-Sand Pebbles incident, 1948 B-24s from Tibet and Taiwan for CIA, and Yalu perimeter, preceeding the throwback, to Parallel 38 for the UN and a spectacular evacuation-retreat by US Marines, to Inchon.

The Moon has already risen and set, over the US invasion, while at riot. PRC may not accumulate debt, where the standing invasion is not settled, by Panmunjon stalemate.

PRC must litigate in USDC, or find me and define a class, for relief of riot and incitement, or $800 billion may go POOOOOF! Got a volcano at Yellowstone, we sure have, as big as Tobe in Sumatra, check it out.

White light going, running 'round my brain- DON'T YOU KNOW, I CAN HAVE YOU RULED 'INSANE'

White light going, running 'round my mind- DON'T YOU KNOW THAT THING WILL MAKE YOU GO BLIND

Ming's White Fleet was decommissioned, April 6, 1437. Brits turned up with triangular arrowheads, in use since the first Emperor, and shot the lights out, with longbows.

They didn't pay well, apparently, since 1st Emperor crossbows started in France, and Europe shot itself silly, until they got personal firearms and nukes perfected. Isabella sent Cris, to find KFPs, left behind when the Ming Fleet wrecked in a hurricane.

See why Teddy's White Fleet in 1902 was sent, to celebrate conquest of American 'Indians?'

Obama tried to lose to Joe Plumber. Now he bullies his private school-crackhead Brahmanism, with the Lion's impeccability at ignoring Ming.

If Mr.Singh fails to lead Obama well, DISASTER, since both decry law and order, for riot, against Islam, since there is ATMAN, the OTTOMANS, you know?

Yao's SPs may come get you, Mr.Obama! Singers may not dictate.

The Hindu-affected India of today ignores how Germany took its swastika, since Zionists stole the sun, from Egypt, injured by UK-US, illegally at treaty, to incite world war, since Victoria's Crusade and US coups in Hawaii, 1893.

Got WORLD WARS, from US and UK incitement to riot, CPC 404.6(a), and conspiracy to interagency fraud by the US and USDOJ, which assert criminals, as administrators, over former Koreans, in South Dakota, illegally called INDIANS, in bad faith, by illegal interest at riot?

SURE YOU HAVE, Peoples' CHUMPS! Get a boy named ISUZU over here, NOW, or we may all go to hell, you know, where voting gets you REALLY burned.

posted in Heated Debate - 1 reply

Quote

2009-11-25T14:42:35Z

"Many individuals spend a considerable portion of their lifetimes in terror of one imagined catastrophe or another. The classic is that your immortal soul will be consigned to eternal torment in the never-ending subterranean barbecue if you fail to follow the whacky edicts of one particular set of puckered dogwhistles or another." ~ L. Neil Smith

posted in Heated Debate - 31 replies

Alts?

2009-11-24T20:00:53Z

Is Roger a Jason alt?

I also think there is an alt here for a little scumbag named Madame Gonzaga. Just a rumor I heard.

posted in Heated Debate - 5 replies

Know what's creepy?

2009-11-24T17:01:35Z

Someone here threatened to slit someone else's throat

heateddebate.tribe.net/thread...6cffab2

and nobody said or did anything.

But whine about Obama all you want.

*waves bye*

posted in Heated Debate - 10 replies

NEW free speech Zone

2009-11-24T16:38:52Z

Middle East Politics tribe

A new tribe where all opinions are welcome and rules don't stifle.

http://tribes.tribe.net/middleeastpolitics

posted in Heated Debate - 5 replies

Heated Debate's topics - tribe.net

When I Say "I Am A Christian"

Jason claims Woodie Guthrie was not political

christmas alone

jason leary queer

A Letter To God From Jason By Proxy

jason leary queery

JASON, ADVOCATE OF MURDER! Say It Aint So!

How We Mark Time

Councilman Under Fire for Being Atheist

Who are you, cowards...that afraid to stand

Obstruction At Andrews Air Force Base

hate

9-11: Truth or Consequences

Flight 93 Shootdown

Celebrating the "Solstice" Retards

911 + Pulling 180's and Pulling Your Leg

The Problem With Absolutism

The Abrahamic religions riot, all courts are tainted, 50 senates must divest, or our costs doom us, AND YOU THINK JESUS WILL SAVE YOU?!

you

High Five!

Oral Roberts Croaks

debunking 911 conspiracy theory nuts

who gives a shit?

Oh What A Tangled Web We Weave

Missile, Missile On the Wall

Thank You Sir! May I Have Another Sir!

A Critical View of Linear Thinking

Shrub's Missing Emails Found...22 Million of Them

In a dilapidated prison for the criminally insane...

911 Pentagon Hoax Revealed

"I Was A Caddy for the Elite"

Religion Should Be Like Your Genitals

Advocates for Cessation of Thought

Notes For An Oral Enticement Of Jason

Annie Machon

911 whistleblower turns out to be a tranny who thinks he's Jesus Christ

The Obama Cave In

incest

*sigh*

Here's An Idea

totally gay or not?

Article: God is Pro Sex

Hani Hanjour - The Red Baron of 911

Free Thought

WTC7 Au Go Go

cheetos

cheetos

more cheetos

cheetos

cheetos

it's all abou the cheetos

cheetos

The Cheetos tribe

cheetos

it's cheetos time

get you some cheetos

cheetos breath

the cheetos tribe

cheeto boy

cheetos

you and your cheetos

cheetos for you

you and a cheeto

you and a cheeto

you and a cheeto

you love those cheetos

cheetos

cheetos

cheetos

with certainty

Past Lives

Pornography

Jason, This Song's For You

The Secret and Sordid History of Robert Gates

911 premise - debate

Pentagon 9/11: Olson's Phone Calls Didn't Happen

Moderator vote

Afghanistan

9/11: Pentagon Aircraft Hijack Impossible

sigh

POLITICS and INTELLIGENT DEBATE don't have this Ming-PRC information, November 25, 2009